Canadian Offers Cash For Missing Suv Info

[Mr Lee]

Interesting turn of events. Muddying the water, or a legit offer? I wonder why no one (Griffiths, Santos or their attorney) did this earlier on? :) Yet another reward money was offered in relation to the kidnap-murder case of 6-year-old Ellah Joy Pique. This time it’s not the province, which earlier offered P360,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of homicide suspect Bella Ruby Santos.Santos’ lawyer Rameses Villagonzalo said a Canadian former law teacher offered a P100,000 reward for information leading to the location of a Pajero bearing plate numbers 679. Villagonzalo was with other lawyers of Santos when they filed a petition for bail in court on her behalf yesterday.Her lawyers declined to disclose the Canadian’s identity. The numbers “679” were seen by three classmates of Ellah Joy on the vehicle used by two persons who fetched her from their school in Minglanilla town last Feb. 8—the last time she was seen alive.Days later, the child was found dead below a cliff in Barili town. The plate numbers reportedly belonged to a vehicle boarded by Norwegian Sven-Erik Berger and Karen Esdrelon.Berger and Esdrelon were cleared after they presented evidence that they were in a Cebu City hotel at the time Ellah Joy was kidnapped.Santos’ Pajero, which was seized by the Criminal Investigation and Detection Group (CIDG), bore the plate number LHJ 382.Villagonzalo showed a text message to local media purportedly from the Canadian who offered the P100,000 reward money on behalf of Bella and her British partner Ian Charles Griffiths. “I appeal to anyone anywhere in the Philippines who knows the whereabouts of the black SUV with the partial plate number ‘679’ and can identify its owners to contact the defense team in Cebu,” the Canadian’s text message read.Villagonzalo said the Canadian can be reached at telephone number 32-2551588 or e-mail address: defence@cdnexgen.com.Complete story HERE

[Markham]

Interesting turn of events. Muddying the water, or a legit offer? I wonder why no one (Griffiths, Santos or their attorney) did this earlier on? :o

I personally know the guy who is offering this reward - no, it's not me! I can assure you it is a bona fides attempt to trace the true kidnappers and killers of Ellah Joy Pique. The reward is offered by someone who has followed the case very carefully since early February and who is convinced that neither Berger and Esdrelon nor Griffiths and Santos had anything to do with those crimes. He is equally convinced that the true answer lies with the owner of that black SUV. In fact, that reward joins the P101,000 reward for the same information put up by Griffiths' friends in the UK back in August. Mark

[Garpo]

I would think and hope that the police investigators have already checked out all vehicle registrations with the last three numbers being 679 on any type of dark colored SUV type vehicle. The witnesses I think are the same ones that identified the wrong two people that were arrested before Santos and Griffiths. Unless trained to do so, I would find it hard to believe that any of the witnesses were able to remember the plate numbers. While eye witnesses are usually pretty good at giving information about what might have happened they are not so reliable on positive identification of who did what. Ask yourself if you think you could identify the last person you saw stopped on a motorcycle and then drive off? Could you identify him or her again a day or two later? You can probably remember and describe the event of the person on the motorcycle stopping but being positive of the person that was driving and stopped is not so easy. While I trust that the witnesses did see Ellah Joy get into a dark colored SUV type vehicle with a male and female. I would not bet much money on much of anything else that they claim they can identify.

[Markham]

You have to remember that the child witness statements were made within two days of the event. It was daylight and the three children were standing a metre away from the vehicle they described as being a "black SUV" or, in once case, "black Pajero". It is possible the three letter prefix was obscured so they were only able to see and recall the number part. Now compare that account with the two witnesses who claimed to have seen Griffiths standing outside a much lighter coloured Pajero (blue) from a distance of 75 feet, late at night and on a stretch of road with no street lighting. And, we are expected to believe, they could also clearly determine and remember the vehicle's plate number from that distance! If they really did see what they have claimed, then why did they wait almost exactly four weeks after the event before reporting it? A cynic might well think that they were attracted by a sizeable share of the reward money - which had risen from its original P100,000 (donated by Minglanilla Town Council a day after Ellah Joy's body was discovered) to over half-a-million a month later. So who do you think is the more believable - the three original child witnesses or the two who came forward much later? But you make a good point. Eye witnesses are not infallible but, in the Philippine criminal justice system, a (prosecution) eye-witness is deemed to be more reliable than any alibi put forward by the defence - even an alibi witness! It is the only criminal justice system I know of that discounts alibi evidence out of hand, without any consideration of its merits. It is for that reason that the CPPO and its lawyer did not investigate Berger's water-tight alibis. Its then Director, Erson Digal, went so far as to lie to the Governor about the video-taped evidence held by the Cebu Waterfront Hotel which clearly showed Berger and Esdrelon checking-in to that hotel at the time Ellah Joy was kidnapped. Oh, I nearly forgot to mention that one of those three original child witnesses - who unequivocally identified Berger and Esdrelon and the vehicle she said they were driving (a black Pajero) - has since changed her statement. She now identifies Griffiths and Santos. Is she believable? Mark

[Old55]

A retired police buddy says " here in the States officers know eye witness testimony to be unreliable". Mark, your insight on the facts to do with this case are very interesting to read here thank you for taking the time to share. I have no idea who killed that poor little girl. Sadly IMO the police are even more clueless or incompetent or hiding something or all of the above. Lee makes a good point about judging "generalizing" to do with the police and justice system in Philippines. I have strong feeling from my family and close friends personal experiences and from what I read in local papers and online so I keep that to myself.

[Mr Lee]

What I find strange to begin with, is that anyone even had a plate number to remember. Lets put ourselves in their shoes, it was not like they saw a little girl forcibly dragged into a car, in that case I would expect someone to remember the plate number, so what would even be the reason anyone would even look at the plate number of the car if the child just willingly got into the vehicle, no less remember it two days later. How many of us have seen children get into a vehicle with a woman of the same race, have we ever made note of the plate number? I would tend to agree if a white man got out of the vehicle and took a Filipino child into the vehicle, that someone might, and I say might make a note of the plate, but if nothing was out of the ordinary, then it is my opinion that no one got a partial plate number unless the number was something easily rememberable such as 123, 456, 321, or something along those lines, so I am suspicious of that part from the start. So IMO all plate number info may be bs, and I agree eye witnesses are not always reliable when identifying a person of another race, yet they are most often very reliable when identifying someone from their own race, and in the Philippines where there are few white people, something about the white person might stand out in their mind. Have we all not been stared at by children and often other locals. Now in a poor country where money might buy just about anything including alibi witnesses, I feel it is reasonable to exclude alibi witnesses over witnesses who have no pony in the race, but it is totally unreasonable to not accept a tape from a place such as a hotel as better evidence than an eye witness, yet we do all realize that clocks on those tape machines may not be correct, and tapes can be altered nowadays to show almost anything, so just a tape alone might not be good enough, but when in a place such as a hotel with no connection to the person other than they stayed there, and after making sure the clock is correctly set, then the tape should trump the eye witness every time. So far this whole case is suspect, so if all is as it appears, and there is no real evidence such as DNA being held back, a good lawyer should destroy the prosecutors case in court, so I do not know why anyone who is innocent would fear a real trial and hide from it. It has been my experience that bs eye witnesses can be proven to be bs by a good lawyer. I hope Ms. Santos gets her trial quickly and then we can see if there is any real evidence to be brought against Griffiths.

[Markham]

What I find strange to begin with, is that anyone even had a plate number to remember. Lets put ourselves in their shoes, it was not like they saw a little girl forcibly dragged into a car, in that case I would expect someone to remember the plate number, so what would even be the reason anyone would even look at the plate number of the car if the child just willingly got into the vehicle, no less remember it two days later. How many of us have seen children get into a vehicle with a woman of the same race, have we ever made note of the plate number? I would tend to agree if a white man got out of the vehicle and took a Filipino child into the vehicle, that someone might, and I say might make a note of the plate, but if nothing was out of the ordinary, then it is my opinion that no one got a partial plate number unless the number was something easily rememberable such as 123, 456, 321, or something along those lines, so I am suspicious of that part from the start. So IMO all plate number info may be bs, and I agree eye witnesses are not always reliable when identifying a person of another race, yet they are most often very reliable when identifying someone from their own race, and in the Philippines where there are few white people, something about the white person might stand out in their mind. Have we all not been stared at by children and often other locals.

According to one of the reports I read, the children said that the vehicle approached them from behind and pulled-up in front of them, whereupon the (front) passenger door opened and a female got out. It is quite possible that the three children would have seen the license plate as they walked up to the car. And they were standing one metre from it when Ellah Joy got in and sat of the female's lap before waving and smiling to her friends. So if you're going to discount the childrens' recollections of the license plate info as 'bs' then you must surely also discount the statements made a month later by the two Barili witnesses who claim to be able to identify the man as Griffiths, the colour and make of his vehicle AND its full plate number - from a distance of some 75 feet on a dark night and with no street lighting! Without that testimony, the Police have no case against Griffiths and Santos.

I hope Ms. Santos gets her trial quickly and then we can see if there is any real evidence to be brought against Griffiths.

Well I am not so sure that defence attorneys would necessarily agree with you. Especially if they are confident that the MLA request will be turned-down for evidential reasons. Now whilst that UK ruling won't directly affect proceedings in Santos' trial, the fact that all the evidence has been reviewed by at least one senior and experienced Judge in the UK and found wanting, that might well affect the Cebu Judge's thinking. It might be considerably more difficult for her to convict Santos based on the same evidence reviewed and dismissed by another court. So a delay might work in the defence's favour. But it's a delicate balance because too long of a delay may result in repeated motions, on Pique's behalf, to order Santos removal from Naga Jail to the detention centre and a long way from her family who can currently visit her 6 days a week. Judge Veloso has already turned-down one, if not two, such requests but she may find it difficult to continue to be so unaccommodating. Mark

[Garpo]

If a defense attorney feels that his client is not guilty and that there is not enough evidence to convict at a trial then they will want a trial as soon as possible. If they feel that the evidence might convict their client at trial then they will delay the trial and try to get rid of the evidence and the case dismissed through other type of court hearings.

[Markham]

I hear what you say and might well agree with you if the circumstances of this case were somewhat different to what they actually are. I will tell you this: this whole tragic episode, right from Day One, has really opened my eyes to the realities of life here and when I compare this case to those of Hubert Webb and the US Marine Corps Corporal - whose conviction resulted out false testimony by his accuser - I do wonder if true justice is served here. When the case rightly collapsed against Berger and Esdrelon, expats living on Cebu really did wonder if it was "open season" for foreigners and who would be next under Police suspicion. If you believe that the criminal justice system here is the same as it is "back home", then I think you should be prepared to have the lenses of those rose-tinted spectacles shattered. Mark

[Dave Hounddriver]

If you believe that the criminal justice system here is the same as it is "back home", then I think you should be prepared to have the lenses of those rose-tinted spectacles shattered. Mark

It is the same, but different. 'Back home', meaning Canada for me, it is the Native "Indian" (indigenous people) who gets thrown in jail for crimes he did not commit. It is not uncommon to hear of one being proven innocent (search Milgaard for example) after years in jail. It is the same kind of justice here but expats are often the ones discriminated against. Feels funny when the shoe is on the other foot.