To Bail Out, Buy, Or Kiss Good Bye

[ekimswish]

I'm wondering wether I should help save my wife's family's land, and possibly buy it off them in the future, or let it go to others by default this next month. Here's the deal: 1. My mother and uncle-in-law "mortgaged" land to another lady years ago; what that means is she gave them 65,000 pesos and harvested the copras (coconut oil) for the next five years. After five years, if they could pay back her 65,000 p, then they could get the land back. If not, it would be hers by default. 2. Recently the lady died and her son wants to give it back to us for the original 65k. I think it's due this month, or soon enough. If we don't get it, there are people interested to buy it for 250k. 3. I'm the only one with money, so, as my wife explained it to me, if we pay the 65k, my uncle-in-law will let us collect the harvests until it's time to sell. When they sell, we'll get our 65k back as well. 4. They could also sell it to us, minus the 65k we'd have already put in. So this is how I've heard the story: if we pay the 65k, the land stays in the family, we can make money off the harvests for now, and either get our money back when they sell, or we can just buy it ourselves when we have the money. This, however, is how I see it: 1. I don't give a damn about the harvests, at the moment. I make that money in my sleep, and probably pay more on all my debts' interest. (I asked my wife for a general average of how much copra they can harvest every 3 months / money they can make, though concede it will be half b.s. whatever they tell her/me). 2. I'm of the opinion that even if we did buy the land, or just part of it, that we couldn't trust anyone to give us our real profits anyways once we're out of the country, which is the plan right now. 3. I'm interested in the land for two reasons: the first is so we have land in the future to possibly retire on or pass down to our kids, and the second is so my uncle-in-law's family is also taken care of, including my nephews. 4. I told my wife this, after talking with my coworkers: If I pay the 65k, I want at least 1/3 of it in our names immediately (her name or our kids'). To me, I'm not interested in saving the land for "them" to just sell a year later, and pay us back our 65k. If I don't step in, they lose everything. If they don't like giving us 1/3 of the land outright, then they can have nothing. But if they want ANYTHING, they should let us put a certain amount of land in our names right now, and they can do with the rest of it as they please. 5. I don't want the land to be lost and our family to get nothing from it, because there are nephews to consider and such. But I don't want to just give them the money, get a few measley harvests out of it, and then JUST be paid back. I want that land to be OURS, or at least whatever 65k gets us. The only reason I'm not saying 1/2 of the land is because I don't want to strong arm family. But without me, they really have no other option. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..... what do you guys think? I would also consider just leaving it alone, let the land go somewhere else, focus on my own debts at the moment, get my family to Taiwan in the New Year, and Canada sometime after that. In the future, when we have more money, we can just buy land if we want to. If not, we could just focus on living in Canada. But the reason I'm even considering this is to have land in the future we can retire on (it's a start) and/or pass on down to the kids. Sorry for such a long explanation. I'm sure I could trim it down by half, but tooooo late. Thanks

Edited October 24, 2011 by ekimswish

[Old55]

If it were me, I would not become involved because more than likely you or your wife would some how become the bad guys. Let them sell the property or lose it, it's up to them.I don't know the dynamics of your family perhaps you could just gift the 65K no strings making it clear the gift is a once in a lifetime deal but this too could cause hard feelings and future expectations. If your wife has strong opinion you should give that serious thought.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Old55

[Jake]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..... what do you guys think? I would also consider just leaving it alone, let the land go somewhere else, focus on my own debts at the moment, get my family to Taiwan in the New Year, and Canada sometime after that. In the future, when we have more money, we can just buy land if we want to. If not, we could just focus on living in Canada. But the reason I'm even considering this is to have land in the future we can retire on (it's a start) and/or pass on down to the kids. Sorry for such a long explanation. I'm sure I could trim it down by half, but tooooo late. Thanks

Hello Mike, I think your very last argument is the best option among the less better options. Cutting it free and clearby starting a new life with your young family in Canada would be less stressful. You're not getting anyyounger and having to worry about extended family issues, especially dealing with money may put youin the grave prematurely. Hoping for a return of investment in the Philippines at a distance of 8,000 milesaway is stressful enough. What ever you do, we wish you and your family the very best. Respectfully -- Jake

[Dave Hounddriver]

I did something similar for my wife. It sounds very much like the situation you are in. I gave her the money to pay off the loan and in return she gets to plant and harvest any coconuts, rice or other produce. All the family claim to own a 'piece' of that land so it will never get titled or sold as no one can agree who owns how much of it. The best we can hope for is that she can work the land for as long as she likes and if the family ever get their sh!t together then they have to pay her back for her investment plus whatever she has spent on taxes and tree planting etc. Its not a real money making proposition although there is a small bit of profit in copra at the moment. The advantage is giving her a leg up in the family hierarchy and a base on which to build future land owning enterprises. Bottom line is, my opinion is to do it if you will be living close so your wife can keep an eye on what the land is producing. Don't do it if you are moving back to Canada. Just my opinion.

[Art2ro]

If you're in the position to let go P65,000 and let it ride for a few years before you get it back or not even though all of you are back in Canada, it's just a price you paid to be on the good graces of your wife's family weather you have title to a piece of their land or not, because at least you gave them the option and opportunity to sell their land and or keep it without anymore liens on their property for future plans for their livelihood! If you can't affordable to loan them the P65,000, they're on their own! And if they have to sell their land, that's unfortunate, because the money they get from selling their land may not last and they will be bankrupt in no time! Sad situation to be in! The main thing is to get yourself and your family to Canada and start a new life with some sort of financial stability without too much uncertainties of your future and your children's future! Returning to the Philippines can wait when you are good and ready to do so! Good luck!

[Mr Lee]

Personally I do not think I would get involved unless we were to be living on the land but I do not know your family situation and if your family has been reliable during your marriage, I just speak if it were my family. Next you say the quoted part below

If we don't get it, there are people interested to buy it for 250k.

So another option might be to sell one fourth of the land and pay off the debt, or sell on third and pay off the debt and have money left over, that would exclude you from the deal totally and possibly keep everyone happy. Only you and your family know what the actual value of the land might be but it would seem to me that it might be more than what is being offered.

[Mr Lee]

Whoops, I forgot to comment on point 3 quoted below. If they have not paid it back in the 5 years, they will most likely not pay it back to you in one year.

3. I'm the only one with money, so, as my wife explained it to me, if we pay the 65k, my uncle-in-law will let us collect the harvests until it's time to sell. When they sell, we'll get our 65k back as well.

[joeatmanila]

Whoops, I forgot to comment on point 3 quoted below. If they have not paid it back in the 5 years, they will most likely not pay it back to you in one year.

3. I'm the only one with money, so, as my wife explained it to me, if we pay the 65k, my uncle-in-law will let us collect the harvests until it's time to sell. When they sell, we'll get our 65k back as well.

Exactly as Mr Lee noted. So pay the 65k get the land mortgaged to you for another 5 years and you'll end having a land of 250k worth for 65k within 5 years. For being a nice guy after the 5 years are over give them 2 years more, then just cut the line and sell it...you were waiting 7 years to get your money back, they cannot blame you. I have done the same and i ended with a 2500m2 land which i went to visit once and said "this is the first and last time i come here" costed me 250k but it's ok, my son might want to make something with it after 30-40 years the area might be developed....as a matter of fact no one was going to boracay 30 years ago, this lot is 5 minutes walk to such a beach and in the middle of nowhere somewhere in mindanao. Edited October 24, 2011 by joeatmanila

[Genius]

How much is 65k to you ?How much do you like the family?If you wouldn't consider such an investment if the familyWere not involved, answer to yourself the first two questions.If conversely you would consider, it, regardless, of family, I would do it. BUT then I don't think it's a large sum, so back to question one.

[Jim Sibbick]

I personally would be handing over the P65,000 to keep the property in the family. No need to get involved in the farming side or take control of the property or any of the other stuff. Regards: Jim