Gangster Hospitals

[ekimswish]

Our nanny just went to the hospital to give birth, but can't leave until she pays. I realize why the Philippine hospitals won't release babies or patients until they pay their bills, but then they add on every day that they stay while not being allowed to leave. Shouldn't there be a compromise here?If you're not letting me leave, you shouldn't be allowed to charge me for that. The balance I owe for the services I asked for and received, I should absolutely have to pay. But when you won't let me leave, you can't charge me for that. It's like kidnap, really.Anyways, the nanny had gone to the local center for poor people first, but they wouldn't accept her because she was at risk to bleed-out or something, which is why she had to go to the bigger hospital. Her daughter asked my wife for money to pay the bill, but we don't have anything to give her right now. We're just hanging on til payday ourselves. Anyways, where does it end? If she doesn't pay, are they just going to hold onto her forever, and the bill becomes something like 938478957398789549495789430859085084508304854504850843509438pesos by the year 4002?

Edited December 10, 2011 by ekimswish

[Jollygoodfellow]

Our nanny just went to the hospital to give birth, but can't leave until she pays. I realize why the Philippine hospitals won't release babies or patients until they pay their bills, but then they add on every day that they stay while not being allowed to leave. Shouldn't there be a compromise here?If you're not letting me leave, you shouldn't be allowed to charge me for that. The balance I owe for the services I asked for and received, I should absolutely have to pay. But when you won't let me leave, you can't charge me for that. It's like kidnap, really.Anyways, the nanny had gone to the local center for poor people first, but they wouldn't accept her because she was at risk to bleed-out or something, which is why she had to go to the bigger hospital. Her daughter asked my wife for money to pay the bill, but we don't have anything to give her right now. We're just hanging on til payday ourselves. Anyways, where does it end? If she doesn't pay, are they just going to hold onto her forever, and the bill becomes something like 938478957398789549495789430859085084508304854504850843509438pesos by the year 4002?

It is against the law for a hospital to not let you out,I will find the info for you but they can not keep a patient in hospital.ADDEDThe lawNote the fine for holding a patienthttp://www.lawphil.n..._9439_2007.htmlhttp://www.thenewstoday.info/2007/05/18/ra.9439.is.now.a.law.html Edited December 10, 2011 by Big Bad Tom
added a bit

[Art2ro]

Look down where I high lighted a sentence in red! It's contradicting a portion of this RA 9439! What does it mean? Hospitals can still hold patients hostage? RA 9439 is now a lawLast April 27, 2007 Republic Act No. 9439, also known as the "Hospital Detention Bill," was signed into law by President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. It is a bill that prohibits the detention of patients in hospitals and medical clinics on grounds of non-payment of hospital bills or medical expenses. This Republic Act will take effect 15 days after publication in two national newspapers of general circulation. The bill was sponsored by Senators Pia S. Cayetano, Manuel Villar, and Sergio Osmena III. The violation of RA 9493 will have a penalty of an imprisonment of six months and a fine of as high as P50,000. Under RA 9493, the law states, "Patients who have fully or partially recovered and who already wish to leave the hospital or medical clinic, but are financially incapable to settle, in part or in full, their hospitalization expenses including professional fees and medicines, shall be allowed to leave the hospital, with a right to demand issuance of the corresponding medical certificate and other pertinent papers required for the release of the patient from the hospital upon the execution of a promissory note covering the unpaid obligation". The law also states the in case of a deceased patient, "the corresponding death certificate and other documents required for interment and other purposes shall be released to any of his surviving relatives requesting the same." In part of the obligation of the patient a promissory note could be secured by either a mortgage or a guarantee of a co-maker, who would be jointly liable with the patient's unpaid medical bill.The PHA (Philippine Hospital Association) is concerned that this law will breed abuse wherein patients will avoid payment of their bills. Senator Cayetano pointed out that the law only applies to charity patients and does not cover patients in private rooms. The question is, "Who will foot the unpaid hospital bills?" Hopefully, Philhealth, Philippine Charity Sweepstakes Office (PCSO), and Philippine Gaming Corporation (PAGCOR) can pick up the difference.The measure or law maybe directed in providing for the Filipino's basic need for quality and affordable medical services, but it still remains on the hands of the government through the Department of Health. For the common "tao" there is always that hardship in coping with the rising cost of medicine and medical services. We will always ask ourselves if there is a room for "social medicine." The government will always foot the bill, but with graft and corruption in its hallways, getting "quality" medicine will always be questionable.There should be a belief on change, of ridding government of graft and corruption and at the same time institute a pro-people program for Filipino health. If one thinks only for the "few", this could derail our progress.

[Jollygoodfellow]

Well I guess if your in a private room you are considered financially able to pay your bill in the first place so the law wont apply. That's how I see it.

[Mr Lee]

Our nanny just went to the hospital to give birth, but can't leave until she pays. I realize why the Philippine hospitals won't release babies or patients until they pay their bills, but then they add on every day that they stay while not being allowed to leave. Shouldn't there be a compromise here?If you're not letting me leave, you shouldn't be allowed to charge me for that. The balance I owe for the services I asked for and received, I should absolutely have to pay. But when you won't let me leave, you can't charge me for that. It's like kidnap, really.Anyways, the nanny had gone to the local center for poor people first, but they wouldn't accept her because she was at risk to bleed-out or something, which is why she had to go to the bigger hospital. Her daughter asked my wife for money to pay the bill, but we don't have anything to give her right now. We're just hanging on til payday ourselves. Anyways, where does it end? If she doesn't pay, are they just going to hold onto her forever, and the bill becomes something like 938478957398789549495789430859085084508304854504850843509438pesos by the year 4002?

The hospitals in the Philippines are often criminal. As other wrote above, I do not feel it is legal and I would go to the police and point out the statue to them. One hospital held one of our nephews dead baby until they paid the bill to get the dead baby back, that the hospital themselves did not treat properly and the child therefore died from just having diarrhea. Often it makes me wonder what type of people run these hospitals, don't they have any good in them. I believe the soul is gone once the person dies and the body is just a vessel, so had it been my child, I would have laughed at them and told them store the body all you want, and for as long as they want because I would have just had it cremated anyway, so I am not paying. Yes I am cruel and heartless but sometimes it takes two of the same to tango. I often cannot understand many things that go on in the Philippines, this type of thing is one of many things that make me. :hystery: In Mikes case above, I would tell her to just take the baby and walk/sneak out of the hospital. Edited December 11, 2011 by Big Bad Tom

[Bruce]

I have heard these stories for a while. But I have never heard of anyone taking it to the 'next level'. If a patient was to say I am leaving NOW, and then walked out the door... would the staff tackle them? Chain them? put them in a windowless room and lock the door?Telling a patient they can't leave until the bill is paid is not the same as false imprisonment or kidnapping a patient and holding for the ransom of the bill. How far will a hospital go, since there is an actual law on the books about the legality of prohibiting the holding of patients until the bill is paid. It would appear that law would prevent a 'case' (way over used term) against the patient as compared to a hotel trying to collect from a guest ho is trying to skip out on a bill. If there was a 'case' then it should be civil and the usual meetings with the barangy captain and so forth about the 'case' before filed in court. It also appears as if the above mentioned law treats the situation as a civil case, the further actions of the hospital staff in trying to actually DETAIN a patient is moving into the criminal areas of law.Anyone have any information of a patient actually DETAINED as compared to a passive / compliant Pinoy / Pinay simply being told they can't leave and then not trying to leave?

Edited December 10, 2011 by Bruce

[Art2ro]

It seems like this RA 9439 circles around the "Promissory Note" as a guarantee that the hospitals and their fees will be paid allowing the patient to leave as long the Promissory Note has been executed by the patient, relative or someone! It puts the hospitals and patients in a "Damn if you do, damn if you don't situation"! Yup! Here we go again! "It's always a matter of money"! As I have read it, hospital detention is illegal period, but it has conditions to avoid the legality issues! A very confusing law for the average person to comprehend, except for an attorney! Here's a few sites one can review and form your own opinions! http://www.chanroble...tno9439irr.htmlhttp://philrights.or...ock-and-key.pdf

[ekimswish]

Remember that case a few months back where a person's child had pnemonia or something, and died because the staff wouldn't let them transfer to the bigger hospital until they paid their bill? They needed emergency care, and the father tried a few things like IOU's, but it didn't work, the kid died, and everyone wondered what it meant.This is our nanny anyways, not us, and if the money were in my pocket right now, I WOULD help her out, but I can't. If I get back there late January, and there are some unresolved issues about it still, I'll look into it a tad. However, I don't understand the way they do things there, never will, and won't pretend to. I'll leave that to the locals, who seem to get by day to day anyways, and she's one of them.A lil' chismis interruption here: she says she was raped walking home from a gathering one night and doesn't know who the father is, but everyone else says it's so and so, and it's soooooooooo obvious (read my sarcasm... I have no idea if it is or isn't).

[Steve & Myrlita]

More than likely, it's the family saying it's so and so's. Rape is still considered a family shame here.

[Dave Hounddriver]

I have heard these stories for a while. But I have never heard of anyone taking it to the 'next level'. If a patient was to say I am leaving NOW, and then walked out the door... would the staff tackle them? Chain them? put them in a windowless room and lock the door?Telling a patient they can't leave until the bill is paid is not the same as false imprisonment or kidnapping a patient and holding for the ransom of the bill. How far will a hospital go, since there is an actual law on the books about the legality of prohibiting the holding of patients until the bill is paid. It would appear that law would prevent a 'case' (way over used term) against the patient as compared to a hotel trying to collect from a guest ho is trying to skip out on a bill. If there was a 'case' then it should be civil and the usual meetings with the barangy captain and so forth about the 'case' before filed in court. It also appears as if the above mentioned law treats the situation as a civil case, the further actions of the hospital staff in trying to actually DETAIN a patient is moving into the criminal areas of law.Anyone have any information of a patient actually DETAINED as compared to a passive / compliant Pinoy / Pinay simply being told they can't leave and then not trying to leave?

Perhaps if you live in an area where there are lots of hospitals that might work. God help you if you try it in a town where there is only one hospital within a 3 hour drive. I say God help you because I'd bet my last dollar that the hospital won't if they got screwed on the last bill you owed them.