3 Filipinos Dead And One Critical

[Mike S]

I guess by now many of you guys have read or heard about the woman who was shot in the face and her mother and 2 siblings killed in Taguig Manila ...... but what you may not know is the REAL story behind this ..... when my asawa lived in Manila she lived in the same block as the Lola that was killed and knew the family ... the Lola used to sell balut ..... my asawa's sister still lives there and called her right after it happen to tell her what happened ..... it seems that the girl that was shot in the face was living with her Muslim boyfriend there in her mothers house ..... apparently the girl had a foreigner boyfriend that was sending her money and she was chatting with him on the web ...... the whole family was apparently benefiting from these funds ........ the Muslim boyfriend told her that he would kill her if she ever left him ...... it happened they were arguing and she told the Muslim that she wanted out from their relationship ...... he is still at large ...... not sure about the girls current condition ..... she is in her 20's+ with kids ...... not sure who the father is .....

[Bruce]

I am shocked! (not really) There are various women related rescue groups around the globe. Mostly I think they are fund raising tools for the top staff and there is always a sexual undertone they try to keep quiet. However, every once in a while something interesting comes up.There is a group in Isreal that 'saves' Jewish girls / women from their muslim husband / boyfriends. Most people do not realize that to the muslim, a Jewish woman as a spouse or GF is a prize. Once the newness of the relationship wears off, then the true nature of the man comes out and the wife / GF is in for a rude awakening. While it is quite normal and acceptable for a muslim to beat, yell at, humiliate a muslim wife / GF, and the women are raised by mothers that promote this behavior in their sons, it is business as usual. Not so much for the average Jewish woman / family.Suddenly, the Jewish woman realizes that she is 'his property' and in his mind, he is right in tracking her down and killing her to restore his honor for leaving him. Due to HER lack of good judgement, she has put herself and her family at risk. Telling her 'I TOLD YOU SO and HAVING FUN NOW???? might feel good, but in reality, she already knows she F***ED UP big time.There have been similar cases in the US and UK. Not always muslim related, but often race related. Currently, in the past 3 days the www.dailymail.co.uk paper has run an article about a (....) woman who has married a (......) man and has been beaten and stabbed and sent to jail for a week for refusing to testify against him at his stabbing trial. This has been going on for YEARS. The man has a facebook page that shows he is a wannabe rapper and poses in 'gansta' poses for this pictures..... WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????? It does not take a qualified head doctor to predict this was going to happen... She is nothing but a prize to him. A piece of property.My issues revolve around the fact that society has to pick up the tab for her (and thousands of other women) bad choices in life. And to make it worse..... it is against PC stance to point her out to other women and say.. SEE!!!! 4 people shot because of HER poor choices. If you date a pit bull (sorry to those nice pit bulls out there).... when you make it angry, expect to be bit far worse than by a poodle.As long as we say oohhhhh that is so bad and offer sympathy to her, she does not mentally have to face that this was HER FAULT.The real crime here is that others were also shot for her poor judgement...... He told her he was going to kill her if she left him and I bet he did not say it 'yesterday' but many times before and she did nothing...... and look at her now. As a nurse working in women's healthcare, I have come across this situation of domestic violence before. But we are told over and over not to blame the 'victim.' That is BS. If she causes it, she should face it. If I as a Kano, say I am traveling to Zambonga (spl?) and plan to buy a business in cash there... What you you guys tell me (well I know some might say Good Idea Bruce! ) but most of you would warn me not to go.If I go anyway and get kidnapped.... WHO is to blame????? ME.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Bruce

[Dave Hounddriver]

If I go anyway and get kidnapped.... WHO is to blame?????

I believe you are asking rhetorically, but the concept can be carried further. Moving to the Philippines in general. All my family members told me it was a bad idea and I would die a premature death and it would be my own fault. Owning a motorcycle. My father told me it was a bad idea (suicycle was the term he used) and I would die a premature death and it would be all my own fault. Smoking. My mother told me it was a bad idea and I would die a premature death and it would be my own fault.I trust I have made the point that we are always responsible for our own decisions but that does not mean we should accept blame for any crimes committed against us.

[Bruce]

I believe there is a difference between being a victim of a random crime and a crime due to our own actions. Riding a MC is great. But it does raise your chances of being hurt / killed. But suppose you knowingly ride on bald tires, leaning into a curve on the road out of town and have a tire failure... whose fault????While I may have the 'right and ability' to travel to Zambonga... should I? If I am kidnapped..... whose fault? Mine. Due to the fact that I read the news and can see for myself that at this time, travel there for a Kano is not a good idea.Legally the term is culpable negligence which means that the victim has a certain amount of responsibility for what has happend to them. Whether 10% or 90%....... there is some degree of responsibility that very often is NOT assigned to the victim due to some psycho babble or not being PC....... As it relates to the original post... SHE made a bad decision and because of HER decision, others were hurt / killed.And 'she' is not alone. There are many many women who keep making the wrong relationship decisions.....

Edited January 28, 2012 by Bruce

[Tatoosh]

Boy, this debate raises mixed feeling for me. Does a girl that dresses sexy actually give permission to be raped? Is youth and inexperience valid excuses for marrying the wrong person? Are humans expected to either be seers, seeing the future without fail...or trapped in the closet of conventional wisdom/experience? I've known a couple of very controlling white Christian guys who treat their mates and children (particularly step-children) like property or pets (think hunting dog kinda pet). And to be honest, we Kanos have a reputation for being just that to our wives. The "conventional wisdom" for some in the Philippine is that we come here looking for wives that we can take back to the States and treat as "helpers" or exploited sexually. My wife just went through a seminar for spouses of foreigners that is required in order to get her passport. Some of the lecture and stories are somewhere between sad and racist. My wife has been told, when she mentions we may move back to the States, "Oh you will just be a helper there." And watched a movie where a teacher marries an American, moves to the States with him, works, saves money in a joint account and then hubby suggests she go visit her relatives in the Philippines. She is happy to see her family, so she goes. But when it comes time to return, her visa isn't good. And a letter with divorce papers arrive. Oh and the joint account is empty. She was just a good "score" for a bad Kano. When we take chances sometimes it doesn't work out. Does that mean we simply shouldn't take chances? Are there any happily Muslim-Israeli marriages? I am guessing there probably are. Just like there are some happy black and Caucasian couples. I worked with such a couple for twenty plus years. They loved motorcycles, music and each other. I am sure they had problems occasionally. And they worked them out. Some folks do that. Others don't seem to be able to.Sadly we don't teach our sisters and daughters how to spot the potential sociopaths and steer clear of them. Oh, some women seem to know innately. But many don't. So should they only be allowed to marry someone their parents or siblings approve of? Kind of complex and lots of different aspects. Yes, people are responsible for what they do. Some folks no when to run, others don't get out in time. So maybe it's shared responsibility?

[Bruce]

Boy, this debate raises mixed feeling for me. Does a girl that dresses sexy actually give permission to be raped? Is youth and inexperience valid excuses for marrying the wrong person? Are humans expected to either be seers, seeing the future without fail...or trapped in the closet of conventional wisdom/experience? I've known a couple of very controlling white Christian guys who treat their mates and children (particularly step-children) like property or pets (think hunting dog kinda pet). And to be honest, we Kanos have a reputation for being just that to our wives. The "conventional wisdom" for some in the Philippine is that we come here looking for wives that we can take back to the States and treat as "helpers" or exploited sexually. My wife just went through a seminar for spouses of foreigners that is required in order to get her passport. Some of the lecture and stories are somewhere between sad and racist. My wife has been told, when she mentions we may move back to the States, "Oh you will just be a helper there." And watched a movie where a teacher marries an American, moves to the States with him, works, saves money in a joint account and then hubby suggests she go visit her relatives in the Philippines. She is happy to see her family, so she goes. But when it comes time to return, her visa isn't good. And a letter with divorce papers arrive. Oh and the joint account is empty. She was just a good "score" for a bad Kano. When we take chances sometimes it doesn't work out. Does that mean we simply shouldn't take chances? Are there any happily Muslim-Israeli marriages? I am guessing there probably are. Just like there are some happy black and Caucasian couples. I worked with such a couple for twenty plus years. They loved motorcycles, music and each other. I am sure they had problems occasionally. And they worked them out. Some folks do that. Others don't seem to be able to.Sadly we don't teach our sisters and daughters how to spot the potential sociopaths and steer clear of them. Oh, some women seem to know innately. But many don't. So should they only be allowed to marry someone their parents or siblings approve of?Kind of complex and lots of different aspects. Yes, people are responsible for what they do. Some folks no when to run, others don't get out in time. So maybe it's shared responsibility?

The woman who dresses sexy senario is very old and well worn. However it raises 2 points. While (in US) she can dress anyway she wants to.... SHOULD SHE and go to an area that a 'reasonable person might realize their attire might put themselves in jeapardy' and if she does, does she bear any responsibility at all for the possible things that may happen to her?Look at it this way. We start with 0 costs. Woman does something that my parents / your parents would realize is not a good idea. She dresses sexy and goes to 'that' part of town to buy drugs. She is raped. (suprise anyone?) She calls the cops and an arrest is made of the 6 young (men) who took turns raping her. Now, since this is 2012 and not 1912, a trial is held and all 6 are guilty (of, I might add, acting just like they are used to acting) and sentenced to 20 years each including the two 15 yr olds as this is their 4th arrest.In adding up the costs of the trial, appeals and incarceration, society tax payers are now on the hook for what $1.5 million or more.....Why????? because (1) woman dressed sexy and went KNOWINGLY to the wrong part of town.Does she bear ANY responsibility for her actions? And just how many of these women and their questionable judgement can 'we' afford?Are their any successful relationships between a muslim man and a non muslim woman? SURE... but when things go bad.... there is a higher chance of violence and death. When he tells her "i will kill you if you leave me' and she STAYS..... is she responsible at all for her death? For the death / injury of those who try to defend her?Here is a REAL situation I was in....... compare and contrast to Jews and muslims.....As a nurse, I was called to go to a house to administer a drug called Heparin, a blood thinner (not really but most people think that way) to a pregnant woman with a clotting disorder that may cause her death if not treated. Heparin is made from the organs of PIGS. (remember compare contrast Jews / muslims)If I have a Jewish or muslim patient I tell them before hand the pig part. For the Jews... no big deal. Heparin is needed to live and is taken by many Jews as needed. End of story (Jews also use pig heart valves when needed).In this case the woman was actually a white woman who married a convience store owner and converted to islam. I told her about the Heparin / pig angle. Husband GOES F#$%^NG NUTS... at her, not me. Screaming and finger pointing that would make Hitler proud!Absolutely forbade his wife from taking the drug that prevented blood clots from forming in her body that may kill her AND the fetus.He had no thoughts about anything other than what the koran says about pigs. End of story. Period. Wife dies.... better than taking 'that' pig drug.I left and have no idea on what ever happened. But it is a lesson to be remembered. I asked a practicing Jew that I know about it. He laughed and said the torah teaches us how to LIVE not how to die. While we avoid eating pork, it is not forbidden as most think. We (the Jews in general) are taught that if only pork is available to eat, we eat it, but do not enjoy it.And that is a big difference between Jews and muslims (and of course those little things like Jews don't have honor killings, women can drive AND vote)

[Tatoosh]

Yes, the girl dressed sexily is an old scenario. I don't know that I would consider it worn well or vice versa. And what if she drives into a poor neighborhood to pick up her friend and the car stalls? Not buying some crack or whatever. It is always nice to stack the deck in terms of the ideal situation to exemplify your conclusion. I'm going through a well respected text book that does exactly the same thing. It makes up situations to promote its view of what they teach at the expense of other schools of thought. All very human and what good teachers tell their students to be aware of. The Muslim going berserk over the pig thing is ignorance. Bruce, I grew surrounded by that sorta crap except it was born again Christians railing against whatever got the congregation on their feet and putting money in the collection plate. On one side of my house was a Catholic church, on the other was a BAC railing against popism, rock and roll, and girls with skirts that didn't cover their ankles. So do I think the Muslim ranting at his wife over the pig thing is good? No. I don't. Do I think EVERY Muslim is like that? No, I don't. How many are, I'm not sure. A bunch probably (my unscientific W.A.G.), but even if it is bunch, I still try to take them one at a time as individuals. Same for Jews, Christians and Atheists. Of course, we could refer to your theory that the woman deserves what happened because regardless of her skin color or upbringing, she CHOSE to marry her husband and she CHOSE to convert. In which case, it shouldn't be all that big a deal as she is getting what she asked for. Not something to get excited about and it actually saves a few doses of whatever that drug was. One of the things I'm trying to do in my old age is to quit demonizing those I don't like. Oh, Hitler is still on the hook, as is Pol Pot and a few others. I'm a bit less forgiving of mass murder and genocide than I suppose some say I should be, but so it goes. Still, I'm trying to understand what makes <insert sociopath/psychopath/yourchoiceofbadguy here> tick instead of just doing the knee jerk reaction that comes very easily. Demonizing people simply reinforces our own preferences. It neither helps us keep from creating them or even recognizing them before they do some real damage.

[Bruce]

Yes, the girl dressed sexily is an old scenario. I don't know that I would consider it worn well or vice versa. And what if she drives into a poor neighborhood to pick up her friend and the car stalls? Not buying some crack or whatever. It is always nice to stack the deck in terms of the ideal situation to exemplify your conclusion. I'm going through a well respected text book that does exactly the same thing. It makes up situations to promote its view of what they teach at the expense of other schools of thought. All very human and what good teachers tell their students to be aware of.The Muslim going berserk over the pig thing is ignorance. Bruce, I grew surrounded by that sorta crap except it was born again Christians railing against whatever got the congregation on their feet and putting money in the collection plate. On one side of my house was a Catholic church, on the other was a BAC railing against popism, rock and roll, and girls with skirts that didn't cover their ankles. So do I think the Muslim ranting at his wife over the pig thing is good? No. I don't. Do I think EVERY Muslim is like that? No, I don't. How many are, I'm not sure. A bunch probably (my unscientific W.A.G.), but even if it is bunch, I still try to take them one at a time as individuals. Same for Jews, Christians and Atheists. Of course, we could refer to your theory that the woman deserves what happened because regardless of her skin color or upbringing, she CHOSE to marry her husband and she CHOSE to convert. In which case, it shouldn't be all that big a deal as she is getting what she asked for. Not something to get excited about and it actually saves a few doses of whatever that drug was.One of the things I'm trying to do in my old age is to quit demonizing those I don't like. Oh, Hitler is still on the hook, as is Pol Pot and a few others. I'm a bit less forgiving of mass murder and genocide than I suppose some say I should be, but so it goes. Still, I'm trying to understand what makes <insert sociopath/psychopath/yourchoiceofbadguy here> tick instead of just doing the knee jerk reaction that comes very easily. Demonizing people simply reinforces our own preferences. It neither helps us keep from creating them or even recognizing them before they do some real damage.

Well I don't say the women deserve what happens, BUT I do say they need to accept responsibility for their own actions or inactions that cost 'anyone else or society' anything. Driving into the wrong part of town to buy drugs is a bit different than taking a wrong turn and getting lost in the wrong part of town. My main point is about 'accepting responsibility for your actions' and the lost driver is a lot less 'at fault' than the woman going to buy drugs.If you want to commit suicide.. fine. Just don't do it by driving 100mph down the wrong side of the road. (This happend to my parents in 1998, they lived but my father was in shock trauma unit / icu 6 weeks and will never be the same)As I get older, I find myself becoming more os a 'realist' as compared to a racist....... From a statistical stand point, look at this......Supppose all the christians in the world disappeared. Would the world be better off? Can 'we' live without the individual work done by people for the common good of mankind, while they are christians? Same for jews.... Say no jews.... (no insulin then and many many many other drugs) Have to see the stats on Nobel prizes given to Jews ? (142+) And now lets talk about the muslims.... what if.... no more muslims? The 'realist' in me says ... no more jihad, no more honor killings, no more attacks by terrorist in the name of allah....have you seen the stats on muslim Nobel prize winners (7).The woman who was dating a muslim in the original post...... statistically speaking, it is my position that IF the BF was not a muslim, she would not have been shot. And the other 3 people killed too. No guarantee, but a much lesser chance.This is not racism, just a realist point of view that is backed up by non judgemental statics. Statisitcially a pit bull can be just as nice and friendly as a lab. BUT, when the lab is mad vs the pit bull is mad..... which is more violent? I NEVER recall a news story of a family's pet lab killing a child or baby. I do recall at least 10 such articles about pit bulls and this is just in the US.If these women who are not muslims insist on dating and marrying muslims, then they MUST accept some responsibility for their injuries when things turn bad.But it is not PC to say such things. But wait another 20 years when France and Briton are 'gone' and sharia law is in full force..... hehehehe just wait..... but alas, me saying I TOLD YOU SO, won't make me feel any better for what is then lost, can never be gotten back. Woman shot and 3 others dead... why? Because she chose to have a muslim for a boy friend and even after he said he would kill her... she did not get rid of him.

[Tatoosh]

Okay, you have your point of view. And I do understand where you are coming from. Some points I agree with and others, not so much. Wave the magic wand and get rid of Christians and I don't know that much of anything is really lost. The Greek philosophers weren't Christian and neither were the Romans until they were well on the way down. Much of great knowledge supposedly saved by those monks toiling away in the monasteries during the so-called "Dark Ages" actually came from the great libraries of the ... oh this will hurt ... Muslims. The pursuit of knowledge, developments of astronomy and mathematics progressed for hundreds of years, but not under Christians and under Jews only in where they were living in Muslim controlled parts of the world. I agree that some aspects of the Muslim belief system codify what we consider prejudice and ignorance. But so do born again Christians, so I'd be waving the wand on that group of imbeciles just as quick as you would on the Muslims. We each got our personal pet peeves. My answer is I'm not waving the wand on any of them. And if the French can't keep France French, then while I will seriously miss their charcuterie, but that's really their own fault for that whole Algiers thing, don'tcha think? So for the original subject of the thread, yeah, the girl having a Muslim boyfriend ups the chances of getting shot, but doesn't guarantee it, since I know some girls that had Muslim boyfriends and lived to tell the tale. And I can think of a few controlling guys of non-Muslim ethnicity that popped their wives, girlfriends and so forth. So we part company in the final analysis. I think she got shot by an a**hole that happened to Muslim but she could have gotten shot by her Catholic Filipino boyfriend because I've heard of that happening too. Sad regardless and the guy needs to be caught and sho... err given life in prison since they don't have the death penalty here. Oh, wait, I do't believe in the death penalty though my argument is against it is not because I'm particularly squeamish. But that is another thread. Hope they catch the dude that did it regardless of his religion.

[Jollygoodfellow]

I think that discussing religion has ran its course here. :mocking: