The "bloods" And The "crips" Are In Cebu??

[ekimswish]

I seem to remember a post... a week or two ago... about changes in the Philippines for the worse... (yes I did write that post) 3 years ago all the malls and restaurants were playing 'techno music' and now.... gangsta rap! The Pinoy tv is full of talent shows... what talent is featured today??? Gangsta rap and group dancing copying the same low class styles of certain groups in America..... like the dumbing down of America... Philippines follows... and soon, to your home province... the dumbing down of the Philippines. Drivebys coming to your 'hood!'Of couse not all agree with my opinions.... so, I shall gently back out of the conversation and allow those great guys.. the Cripps and the Bloods.... to talk to you about it. Please post your home address and a short inventory list of your electronics and stash places for cash... when the boyz come to visit to talk to you. :thumbsup:hehehehehe when the dooor bell rings, it is not always the mormons.... :541: And speaking of the mormons... how many of you knew that in addition to the white shirted missionaries, the church also has a group that does public service projects without any religious attachments? I doubt the bloods and cripps have any public service projects in the pipeline.... Just sayin' bro.....

You're right Bruce. If they never listened to gangster rap, they'd still be hard working, well-educated, contributors to society. Gee, I wonder what kind of music all the other criminals in the Philippines are listening to? Maybe when you're kidnapped, it's nonstop Bonjovi, 24 hours a dizzay.

You are focusing on the music itself and NOT what it represents. First... rap is, technically "dumbed down music", same as 'base' music, but with vocals. You mentioned Bon Jovi.. OK, many of their songs are 'complicated' in nature and require not only playing skills, but also skills in timing and the blending of sounds.If you compare different forms of music of the western world / europe... it is multifacited and complicated in nature. it requires not only skill but also brain power to understand and master. Not so with rap.Now, expanding the rap picture..... the culture that MOST embraces rap is destructive in nature. Rap is about violence, while most rock is about women and love stories. The clothing style is dumbed down, the language is dumbed down AND..... the next part is the most important part!You have missed my points by focusing on rap as music. Children, any children, exposed to rap and it's dumbed down / destructive culture... are going to be negatively affected! Less will aspire to 'be something' in their futures and instead focus on the very unlikely prospect that THEY will be the next Bobby Brown.Rap in and of itself is simply the 'face' of a culture of destruction. While YOU may listen to rap about killing cops and stealing and women as ho's, and may not steal or shoot at cops or treat your wife /gf as a dumb 'ho', what do you think a 3,4,5,6,7,+++ yr old kid, listening to rap and seeing rap on the talent shows and other tv shows.... what will he do when grown? If that child is a girl... do you think SHE will grow up respecting herself or is her role in society a future 'ho'? America is DONE! Can't turn back time and when you call a shovel a shovel.... it is not PC and YOU are in trouble. And the Philippines is following the US with a time lag. That is the point here. If you like rap... ok. but do not turn a blind eye to the negative effects on any society.

I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but virtually every single guy I grew up with listened to violent gangster rap, and it had no impact on how they behaved. For example, in high school, smoking pot or getting drunk were the favorite past-times for my group of friends. Oh yeah, they committed a lot of crime and got in a lot of fights. Without a doubt, they thrived on the violent and criminal lyrics of the music they were listening to. But you know what? So did my cousin and his friends out on the farm where they listened to heavy metal and country music.Today, what percentage of them are in jail? Almost none. They almost all went through juvi in our youth, but by the time they were 18~23 had gotten their lives together and are now productive members of society, some married with kids, and others still enjoying the bachelor life, moving up in their line of work. What do they all have in common? They still love gangsta rap. But ultimately, you know what turned out to be a huge indication of which ones spent more time breaking the law and in dentention? Family life. The ones from decent families, no matter what amount of liquor they consumed (because weed never made anyone break the law), or how many times they listened to murder on a CD, they had a good idea of what life was really all about. The ones who came from abusive or criminal homes are the ones who spent the most time in trouble - since before listening to rap music - are who had the hardest time adjusting to adulthood, if ever at all.Does rap music influence kids? I don't think so. I think life influences kids. Monkey see, monkey do. If you're talking about a black kid in South Central, LA, then rap music is just affirming what he sees on a day to day basis. If you're talking about a redneck in small town America, it depends on how often his dad beats his mother, and the local gang beats on him. People from good families, regardless of music and other rebellious tendencies, most often return to a life of responsibility sooner or later. Edited February 23, 2012 by ekimswish

[Bruce]

So.... listening to rap.... bunch of juvenile crimes... now grown up and OK...... Well perhaps those victims of the juvenile crimes might not think so. Sort of like parole do gooders for felons..... give them enough chances and enough time and THEN they will turn their lives around and you can say SEE! I told you so! Or not.....While not a mainstream activity, there are some police officers that track criminals AFTER the police officer (not them) was in a position to shoot, legally, and did not drop the hammer. Off to jail... out, crime, jail, out crime, jail, out crime. And in 15 + years there really ARE dead victims that if, years ago, that police officer had of legally shot the criminal dead.... all future victims whould not have been a victim of (that) criminal.... Recently (past 5 years) there have been multiple news articles about a felon getting an undeserved parole and then raping / killing again and the journalist back tracks the story to (__________) who should have never granted parole in the 1st place.When I had my pawn shop, I had a customer who used to hang out and help when help was needed. He once told me that he shot a guy (1 of 2) who had broken into his house and pulled a gun on him. But, and yes, I and other did chastize him, the shot was not fatal.He rememberd the name of the 17 yr old man. I did an internet search and found the news article which gave me both names. Then off to the Florida DOC website and there BOTH went to prison and in and out and in and out with multiple felonies..... So, while you did not go into any details about your friend juvenile crimes... not all juvenile criminals trun them selves around. A victim is still a victim!As for rap music... there are negative psychological aspects. It is well proven in child growth and development that young brains need stimulation at certain critical times. Dumbed down music does not help. It does not provide the same stimulation as more complex music provides.You mentioned east LA... OK, the kids see bad things AND then those things are reinforced by the music... great... just great...And with the time lag.... the Philippines are not far behind! I remember that 'now' and in the past 10 years, there have been many many posts of very talented Philippine children on youtube playing the piano or violin, and being able to grasp, understand and then play back complex musical rhythms. As time goes on, I believe you will see less and less of this and more 4 yr olds stomping and screaming words into a mic as they try to be 'rappers'.Tell me... how many parents would like to see their child as a musician playing well enough to have a following and perhaps a career or a child grabbing his crotch and screaming into a mic F*** dat teacr', I tol dat biach eyes don't need no maphs, I gonna hab a crew of jeepny jumpers and snatcher boyz......dooda dooda dooda.......day!!!!!!!You as an adult are not as infuenced by negative thigs as a child..... remember that. Muslim men are raised by their own mothers not to respect women... are the derogatory lyrics against women in rap.... any .... really..... different???? How many times can a boy hear women are whores until he starts believing it? How many times can a girl hear it before she resigns herself to it? The Philippines is having to face the negative aspects of western soceity and the future gets closer. Rap really can't be a positive learning experience for any child. Even with 'clean' words, it is still 'dumbed down' and fails to stimilate the brain the way more complex music does. I am going to start another threat about a similar situation.....

Edited February 24, 2012 by Bruce

[Mike S]

This is an interesting discussion ..... we just had a thread a while back as to the dangers of kids playing pc games and how experts thought it caused hostilities in youngsters .... some posters agreed and others like myself disagreed ..... but I can only speak for myself at an old age as they didn't have those back when I was a kid ..... as to music or I suppose anything IMHO if you listen to it long enough it can effect your view points .... I mean after all how do they brainwash people ..... they keep telling them or showing them over and over the same thing until it is embedded in the mind ...... so I guess I better rethink my video game theory :541: ..... cause I just might be wrong ..... :mocking:

[Bruce]

This is an interesting discussion ..... we just had a thread a while back as to the dangers of kids playing pc games and how experts thought it caused hostilities in youngsters .... some posters agreed and others like myself disagreed ..... but I can only speak for myself at an old age as they didn't have those back when I was a kid ..... as to music or I suppose anything IMHO if you listen to it long enough it can effect your view points .... I mean after all how do they brainwash people ..... they keep telling them or showing them over and over the same thing until it is embedded in the mind ...... so I guess I better rethink my video game theory :hystery: ..... cause I just might be wrong ..... :dance:

The video games also stunt social growth and skill in heavy users. They also are causing a negative impact with 'new' police officers!Are there any current cops on the forum and can comment?The new officers are called generation X officers and they look at life like a big video game. It really is to them a game of good guy vs bad guys and they have limited understanding of people and long term actions. In the greater Ft. Lauderdale area, there are 5,000 people in jail, at any one time. Jail, not prision and this is just in Broward County. Arrests are publised in the paper with the mug shots. www.sunsentinel.com In reading them over the past 3+ years, I see a huge number of arrests for 'nothing', That same 'nothing' in past years would have resulted in a 'notice to appear' ticket or similar. But with today's Gen X officers, each person arrested is a 'point'. Several officers in the Ft. lauderdale department made the paper when it was reported that they admitted they arrested people on trumped up false charges.... just to get that 'point'.All of which goes back to the video games in which 'points' are made, and no one really is hurt or killed... just a game... right??? These officers spent their entire teenage years playing thise games! Edited February 24, 2012 by Bruce

[ekimswish]

So.... listening to rap.... bunch of juvenile crimes... now grown up and OK...... Well perhaps those victims of the juvenile crimes might not think so. Sort of like parole do gooders for felons..... give them enough chances and enough time and THEN they will turn their lives around and you can say SEE! I told you so! Or not..... While not a mainstream activity, there are some police officers that track criminals AFTER the police officer (not them) was in a position to shoot, legally, and did not drop the hammer. Off to jail... out, crime, jail, out crime, jail, out crime. And in 15 + years there really ARE dead victims that if, years ago, that police officer had of legally shot the criminal dead.... all future victims whould not have been a victim of (that) criminal.... Recently (past 5 years) there have been multiple news articles about a felon getting an undeserved parole and then raping / killing again and the journalist back tracks the story to (__________) who should have never granted parole in the 1st place. When I had my pawn shop, I had a customer who used to hang out and help when help was needed. He once told me that he shot a guy (1 of 2) who had broken into his house and pulled a gun on him. But, and yes, I and other did chastize him, the shot was not fatal. He rememberd the name of the 17 yr old man. I did an internet search and found the news article which gave me both names. Then off to the Florida DOC website and there BOTH went to prison and in and out and in and out with multiple felonies..... So, while you did not go into any details about your friend juvenile crimes... not all juvenile criminals trun them selves around. A victim is still a victim! As for rap music... there are negative psychological aspects. It is well proven in child growth and development that young brains need stimulation at certain critical times. Dumbed down music does not help. It does not provide the same stimulation as more complex music provides. You mentioned east LA... OK, the kids see bad things AND then those things are reinforced by the music... great... just great... And with the time lag.... the Philippines are not far behind! I remember that 'now' and in the past 10 years, there have been many many posts of very talented Philippine children on youtube playing the piano or violin, and being able to grasp, understand and then play back complex musical rhythms. As time goes on, I believe you will see less and less of this and more 4 yr olds stomping and screaming words into a mic as they try to be 'rappers'. Tell me... how many parents would like to see their child as a musician playing well enough to have a following and perhaps a career or a child grabbing his crotch and screaming into a mic F*** dat teacr', I tol dat biach eyes don't need no maphs, I gonna hab a crew of jeepny jumpers and snatcher boyz...... dooda dooda dooda.......day!!!!!!! You as an adult are not as infuenced by negative thigs as a child..... remember that. Muslim men are raised by their own mothers not to respect women... are the derogatory lyrics against women in rap.... any .... really..... different???? How many times can a boy hear women are whores until he starts believing it? How many times can a girl hear it before she resigns herself to it? The Philippines is having to face the negative aspects of western soceity and the future gets closer. Rap really can't be a positive learning experience for any child. Even with 'clean' words, it is still 'dumbed down' and fails to stimilate the brain the way more complex music does. I am going to start another threat about a similar situation.....

As I mentioned... my cousins in the farms were also getting into trouble. I was actually shocked at how much "harder" they were out there than we were in the city. I thought listening to gangsta rap was our official stamp of "hardness (insert joke here)."If you want to talk about one of my favorite rappers of all time, let's discuss Ice-T, creator of the notorious Cop Killer song. I admired him a lot as a 12 year old, and even now as a 30 year old, because he was just telling how it was in the streets that he grew up in. He was expressing his anger at politics, at crooked cops, at all sorts of things. He talked about life as a pimp, because he actually did learn how to pimp - get this - while stationed in Hawaii with the military! If you listen to rap these days, it's a far cry from what it used to be in the early 90's. Now, it's 90% club music. It's all about getting down, smackin' booty, and pourin' out the champagne, because that's what more people want to listen to. It SELLS better. When Ice-T was rapping about gangster stuff, he made a lot of money, but not nearly as much as what rappers today are making. And, oh yeah, there were a lot of copycat "studio-gangsters" who made explicit albums just to get famous and make money, but I never liked them. They were fake, and if you listened to them, you were probably fake, too. Do I mean fake "gangster?" No, because I never pretended to be a gangster. I just mean, there was no genuine feeling to it that made you listen or relate to the human experience, however ugly it was, that they were voicing on the record.Basically, I listened to Ice-T for the same reason you watched Scarface.Let's just remember, that last thread we discussed this on ended with an article talking about the drop in crime. I said earlier than that, that the violent crime and murder rate and all those things today is not what it was in the 80's and early 90's. If you want to find something to blame America's current difficulties on, try a culture obssessed with sports over science, or entitlement over sacrifice. I could be wrong on those, but if modern rap (along with American Idol and the rest of Western entertainment) embodies one thing about today's culture, it's the "all about me" way of thinking. I hate it anywhere I see it, whether in a rap song or in a church sermon where Jesus is supposed to cure all your problems because you're awesome.(note: I mean that last religious comment as a show of moral support for JC... an attack on how people view him, and not on he, himself)

[Bruce]

Your last bit about the problems in America are ever so true! I hate America (or UK or whatever) has Talent! In reality, they seem to pic mediocre talent at best for TV appeal. You see much more talent on Youtube. They try to be soooo PC. Pick less attractive people to show that everyone gets a chance... Susan Boyle has a great singing career behind the scenes and voice overs.... but who wants to see her out front belting out a tune? Visual appeal sells!You mentioned Ice-T. If he was required to actually SING..... where would he be today? Same for most rap 'artists' and then compare their indivual 'singing' talents to say 1950's Dion and other street corner singers..... Like I have said.... rap is dumbed down. If there were legally enforceable minimum singing abilities.... how many would be calling themselves a rapper?

[ekimswish]

Your last bit about the problems in America are ever so true! I hate America (or UK or whatever) has Talent! In reality, they seem to pic mediocre talent at best for TV appeal. You see much more talent on Youtube. They try to be soooo PC. Pick less attractive people to show that everyone gets a chance... Susan Boyle has a great singing career behind the scenes and voice overs.... but who wants to see her out front belting out a tune? Visual appeal sells!You mentioned Ice-T. If he was required to actually SING..... where would he be today? Same for most rap 'artists' and then compare their indivual 'singing' talents to say 1950's Dion and other street corner singers..... Like I have said.... rap is dumbed down. If there were legally enforceable minimum singing abilities.... how many would be calling themselves a rapper?

Alright, we're making some headway here and finding common ground. I agree with you that most rap is dumbed down, but only in the same way that most pop bands these days are also dumbed down. I wish more rock bands had heroin addictions today, and maybe we'd be getting some good music yet.But I will defend the true artists of hip hop who have rapped unbelievably poetic lyrics about hope and change and suffering and survival. There's actually more that goes into making some of these beats than it would appear, and it takes a true entertainer to combine rhythm, rhyme, and message. Eminem, for example, is probably one of the funniest comedians on the planet, only he's not actually a comedian. His lyrics were just really funny, at least before his addiction to pills and stuff. The most successful rappers have generally be politically conscience rappers, such as Ice-T, Cube, Public Enemy, Tupac, and these days, Common. 50 Cent is a loser. Nas is a pretty good guy. Jay Z ain't all that bad. Snoop is just someone who loves smoking dope and having sex. Eazy-E was a gangster (nothing nice about his lyrics) who died of AIDS. What I'm saying though, is you can't paint them all with the same brush. There are different styles of rap, delivery, beats, and themes. They're not all the same.Some are garbage. Some are golden. Some are neither here nor there. If a kid listens to Lil' Wayne, god save us all. If a kid listens to Common, thank god.

[Bruce]

Your last bit about the problems in America are ever so true! I hate America (or UK or whatever) has Talent! In reality, they seem to pic mediocre talent at best for TV appeal. You see much more talent on Youtube. They try to be soooo PC. Pick less attractive people to show that everyone gets a chance... Susan Boyle has a great singing career behind the scenes and voice overs.... but who wants to see her out front belting out a tune? Visual appeal sells!You mentioned Ice-T. If he was required to actually SING..... where would he be today? Same for most rap 'artists' and then compare their indivual 'singing' talents to say 1950's Dion and other street corner singers..... Like I have said.... rap is dumbed down. If there were legally enforceable minimum singing abilities.... how many would be calling themselves a rapper?

Alright, we're making some headway here and finding common ground. I agree with you that most rap is dumbed down, but only in the same way that most pop bands these days are also dumbed down. I wish more rock bands had heroin addictions today, and maybe we'd be getting some good music yet.But I will defend the true artists of hip hop who have rapped unbelievably poetic lyrics about hope and change and suffering and survival. There's actually more that goes into making some of these beats than it would appear, and it takes a true entertainer to combine rhythm, rhyme, and message. Eminem, for example, is probably one of the funniest comedians on the planet, only he's not actually a comedian. His lyrics were just really funny, at least before his addiction to pills and stuff. The most successful rappers have generally be politically conscience rappers, such as Ice-T, Cube, Public Enemy, Tupac, and these days, Common. 50 Cent is a loser. Nas is a pretty good guy. Jay Z ain't all that bad. Snoop is just someone who loves smoking dope and having sex. Eazy-E was a gangster (nothing nice about his lyrics) who died of AIDS. What I'm saying though, is you can't paint them all with the same brush. There are different styles of rap, delivery, beats, and themes. They're not all the same.Some are garbage. Some are golden. Some are neither here nor there. If a kid listens to Lil' Wayne, god save us all. If a kid listens to Common, thank god.

Other than those charged with a crime and made the papers or Ice-T... I only know in passing the names you mentioned.... Speaking of your use of 'golden' the only golden one I know of was the rapper who made a video of himself peeing (golden shower) on underage groupies....My 33 yr old former step daughter used to (years ago) listen to 'dodo brown'....... :hystery:I really can't comment on good vs bad rap. Dumbed down is dumbed down to me. Talking instead of singing was used in a few modern songs (Big John et al) But most 'rap' people can't sing so they rhyme. Like 30 years ago the long winded insults that were so popular in 'that' culture.... Yo momma so big, she gots her own zip code...... that crap....

[Dave Hounddriver]

If a kid listens to Lil' Wayne, god save us all. If a kid listens to Common, thank god.

I'm inclined to think there is more crap than good. It's my opinion that gangsta type rap music only became popular because of its 'shock' appeal.  Example, the black gansta slut Lil' Kim who has so much success because she is a shocking, hard core, bitch.  And I used to listen, sometimes, just to hear what she would say next.