Legal Question/ Pinoy Logic / Outcomes

[Bruce]

I am going to propose a legal question and would like opinions based on PINOY LOGIC not western logic. Since there has been a reoccuring theme about 'sexpats' and I had already posted a short bit about my opinion that the term and the negative view there of was unwarranted and way over used, I further came up with this situation and I have no answer (insert comments from Tom and Dave HERE_________ )1. Western logic says that there can be no 'contract' to govern an illegal concept or propsal. (1st yer law school stuff).2. Western governments always have the 'option' to prosecute even if the victim or supposed victim does not want to prosecute.Lets set those concepts aside. And lets not get into any child molester situations. ONLY Pinoy logic / law here.Now, before I first came to Phils and since I have been here, it was and has been explained to me that unless there is a 'complaint' there is no investigation. Further, if there is an investigation and an arrest is made, it is quite possible that the family or victim can be paid a certain amount and the complaint is withdrawn. End of story.The usual example is that if I am killed and no complaint by my family, then no investigation. If a Pinoy is killed and the dead person's family is paid and then agree, then the 'case' is dropped.But my question here is about relationships. Say a 15, 16 or 17yr old girl. Can her family enter into an agreement with a foreigner to 'allow' her to have a relationship with him and then the law regarding consent under 18 is ignored? Can the government still bring a case?Usually all related stories I read on this forum revolve around scams when the girl is lying about her age and then a case is brought to extort money from the foreigner. NOT WHAT I AM ASKING HERE.No scam intent. No sex with out parental consent as the imaginary foreigner is approaching the family like it USED to be in asking the father permission to marry the daughter. Not for casual sex like the temporary 4hr marriage in islam that allows men to cheat on their current wife..... But an actual relationship with an underage (not a child) girl.Since 'we' all seem to have seen the same thing at the (damn) mall... older guy... possible under age girl friend..... I was wondering if, using Pinoy logic, the above situation is able to be used as say a 'safe harbor' as then the family is well aware of the relationship and has given consent (I again, am not asking about WHY the family has given consent hehehehe can you say 32" TV?)Willing girl, willing family willing foreigner..... What are the options? And before anyone starts with the ... a 15, 16, 17 yr old IS a child... that is wrong from a biological stand point AND there is good reason to believe than the great grandmother and the women before her generation, of many forum members were married by age 14..... I am not looking for any moral answers. Just Pinoy legal logic / outcomes

[billten]

IME its all about who notices. The complaint can be made by someone other than the child or her parents. If a child protection group or someone in the local prosecutors office finds out about the exploits of the guy, AND decides they wish to get involved. A case can be files and a world of trouble opened up.

[Dave Hounddriver]

But my question here is about relationships. Say a 15, 16 or 17yr old girl. Can her family enter into an agreement with a foreigner to 'allow' her to have a relationship with him and then the law regarding consent under 18 is ignored? Can the government still bring a case?

You are treading on very dangerous moral and legal ground with that question. If I didn't know you were a great guy I would think you are just trying to stir sh&t here.

[Bruce]

But my question here is about relationships. Say a 15, 16 or 17yr old girl. Can her family enter into an agreement with a foreigner to 'allow' her to have a relationship with him and then the law regarding consent under 18 is ignored? Can the government still bring a case?

You are treading on very dangerous moral and legal ground with that question. If I didn't know you were a great guy I would think you are just trying to stir sh&t here.

This is not about 'me' but instead an opended question that either has a direct answer or is subject to interpretations. I am not trying to stir up anything. But as the 'situation' is repeated frequently on the forum about the 'older foreigner' and the young(er) GF, I think it is a topic that deserves discussing.In the long run... in both the US and in Phils.... I would like to see well defined legal lines between a (true) child molester and say a 22 yr old who is arrested for a 16 yr old GF. In the US, that 22 yr old will be indentified FOR LIFE as a sex offender in the same class as the true child molester and that is both unfair and simply not an even comparison. Even if he marries her and 40 years later... he is STILL on a sex offender list because he started dating his wife before she was 18. In Phils there have been weak attempts to lower the age of consent which would, with the stroke of a pen, eliminate the threat of legal action for a % of these relationships.As an example..... suppose that in the US, all traffic fines went to the social security fund nstread of a % for state and a % for local governments. REMOVE the incentive to make traffic stops for financial gain. Then if you have a speed limit of say 35 and were having a lot of traffic stops, RAISE the speed limit to 45, and a large % of those stops are no longer going to occur.There are either no speed limits or a higher range of speed limits in many parts of the worldas compared to the US. Those drivers manage just as well as the drivers in the US. Same logic applies to the age of consent. Lower it and remove the threat of legal action against a % of those people in relationships before any change was done.It used to be in South Carolina, you could get married at 14. I have never read of South Carolina becoming a mecca for men looking for young wives!

[Jake]

But my question here is about relationships. Say a 15, 16 or 17yr old girl. Can her family enter into an agreement with a foreigner to 'allow' her to have a relationship with him and then the law regarding consent under 18 is ignored? Can the government still bring a case?

You are treading on very dangerous moral and legal ground with that question. If I didn't know you were a great guy I would think you are just trying to stir sh&t here.

Hello Bruce,Your topic based on the premise that if there is no complaint, then no investigation. As you may know, anythingcan be bought to work the Philippine legal system in someone's favor. It may work once or twice but could be veryexpensive. I may be lucky one time but I will always be looking over my shoulders for the law or in some cases,hired guns of angry relatives. The so called Pinoy logic is a dichotomy. It's like saying military intelligence. Twoopposing terms used in the same sentence. A prime example of Pinoy logic is the current impeachment trial of the top supreme justice. It's a cluster puck atits best. The Pinoy logic/outcome as far as litigation is really -- which lawyer can come up with the biggest pitcherfull of warm spit.Respectfully -- Jake

[Bruce]

But my question here is about relationships. Say a 15, 16 or 17yr old girl. Can her family enter into an agreement with a foreigner to 'allow' her to have a relationship with him and then the law regarding consent under 18 is ignored? Can the government still bring a case?

You are treading on very dangerous moral and legal ground with that question. If I didn't know you were a great guy I would think you are just trying to stir sh&t here.

Hello Bruce,Your topic based on the premise that if there is no complaint, then no investigation. As you may know, anythingcan be bought to work the Philippine legal system in someone's favor. It may work once or twice but could be veryexpensive. I may be lucky one time but I will always be looking over my shoulders for the law or in some cases,hired guns of angry relatives. The so called Pinoy logic is a dichotomy. It's like saying military intelligence. Twoopposing terms used in the same sentence. A prime example of Pinoy logic is the current impeachment trial of the top supreme justice. It's a cluster puck atits best. The Pinoy logic/outcome as far as litigation is really -- which lawyer can come up with the biggest pitcherfull of warm spit.Respectfully -- Jake

I agree. But my thoughts, and you raise a good point, were not geard to a foreigner looking for a way to 'exploit' young girls as a GF, but instead for a foreigner to enter into a legit long term relationship.But as you pointed out.... I do agree that some of those reading my post see it my way and others ..... say ...... HOT DAMN! I gonna draw up a contract and leave blank spaces where mom and dad sign!That was not my intent in the original question......

[Jake]

But my question here is about relationships. Say a 15, 16 or 17yr old girl. Can her family enter into an agreement with a foreigner to 'allow' her to have a relationship with him and then the law regarding consent under 18 is ignored? Can the government still bring a case?

You are treading on very dangerous moral and legal ground with that question. If I didn't know you were a great guy I would think you are just trying to stir sh&t here.

Hello Bruce,Your topic based on the premise that if there is no complaint, then no investigation. As you may know, anythingcan be bought to work the Philippine legal system in someone's favor. It may work once or twice but could be veryexpensive. I may be lucky one time but I will always be looking over my shoulders for the law or in some cases,hired guns of angry relatives. The so called Pinoy logic is a dichotomy. It's like saying military intelligence. Twoopposing terms used in the same sentence. A prime example of Pinoy logic is the current impeachment trial of the top supreme justice. It's a cluster puck atits best. The Pinoy logic/outcome as far as litigation is really -- which lawyer can come up with the biggest pitcherfull of warm spit.Respectfully -- Jake

I agree. But my thoughts, and you raise a good point, were not geard to a foreigner looking for a way to 'exploit' young girls as a GF, but instead for a foreigner to enter into a legit long term relationship.But as you pointed out.... I do agree that some of those reading my post see it my way and others ..... say ...... HOT DAMN! I gonna draw up a contract and leave blank spaces where mom and dad sign!That was not my intent in the original question......

Hmm....nice try in having a blank contract for long term relationships for Filipinos and foreigners alike.The word "legit" can open up a can of worms. It all depends on interpretation of laws (read who hasthe deeper pockets). Somewhat unrelated (and possibly way off topic) regarding contracts: http://www.philippin...dpost__p__27675 Edited February 22, 2012 by Jake
added more beef

[Tatoosh]

It is an interesting question and biologically, the ages you mention are a prime reproductive period*, if you look at it from an anthropological and/or biological viewpoint. But the guy would be in deep dooh dooh. Where I grew up there was a legal five year provision for age difference if the girl was "underage". So a 16 or 17 year old girl might have a 21 or 22 year old boyfriend without him going straight to the SEX FIEND category for life. However at age 14 or under, I think that rule did not apply. I read about one guy that was arrested for having an underage girl in his room at a resort in Cebu. He checked in with her. She was accompanying him with the consent of her family. He was a "trusted" family friend and they had no problem with her spending her time unsupervised with him and even sharing his bed, I'm guessing, though they denied he was abusing her, as did the guy himself, of course. He was arrested and charged regardless.There is a law requiring resort/hotel staff to report cases where an underage girl is cohabitating with an adult (read foreigner) that is not related to them.* Note added later: I am talking about human history prior to recent social and cultural mores. When the life span of most humans was around three decades and a forty year old or fifty year old was thought to be ancient, reproduction occurred earlier in life simply because people did not live as long and if you didn't start early, you likely would not be around long enough to raise the children to close to biologic maturity. This has nothing to do with cognitive/emotional maturation that now specifies 18 to 21 years of age.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Tatoosh

[Bruce]

What I do finding interesting is there seems to be a split in the reaction of the government to a foreigner who is caught up in a sex for money situation with an underage GRO. and that of a foreigner with an underage (less than 18) GF.It appears that once the police are involved, usually by a family complaint (not a GRO raid) , money changes hands and the foreigner is allowed to leave. The original questions revolve around a foreigner asking for permission from the parents / family for the relationship before any legal issues arise.If the relationship has the blessings of the family..... does that lessen or remove the threat of action barring any outside action from the government?Wise attorneys say... 'There is no right way to do a wrong thing'. However, when asked and paid for an opinion, those same attorneys may come up with a way to 'mitigate' or lessen your exposure to legal pitfalls.... (Don't you just love attorneys!)

[Bruce]

It is an interesting question and biologically, the ages you mention are a prime reproductive period, if you look at it from an anthropological and/or biological viewpoint. But the guy would be in deep dooh dooh. Where I grew up there was a legal five year provision for age difference if the girl was "underage". So a 16 or 17 year old girl might have a 21 or 22 year old boyfriend without him going straight to the SEX FIEND category for life. However at age 14 or under, I think that rule did not apply. I read about one guy that was arrested for having an underage girl in his room at a resort in Cebu. He checked in with her. She was accompanying him with the consent of her family. He was a "trusted" family friend and they had no problem with her spending her time unsupervised with him and even sharing his bed, I'm guessing, though they denied he was abusing her, as did the guy himself, of course. He was arrested and charged regardless.There is a law requiring resort/hotel staff to report cases where an underage girl is cohabitating with an adult (read foreigner) that is not related to them.

Well then that is interesting in that even though the family had no issues, he was still charged. I wonder what the outcome was? I wonder what her age was and since they claimed no bf / gf relationship, did it matter?I have been told there is a law to stop foreigners from allowing 'children' into their bathrooms to use the CR or shower without a family member present. I did read it a while ago and there are some exemptions.This was important to me as when I built the boarding house, I had built a block 'guard shack' style outdoor shower with access from the road and a locked back door access to the property. This is open to the squatters to come and shower or use the water for laundry (well water) without anyone in the boarding house to be bothered. No issues so far and no one has made any concerns known. Of course that foreigner (me) is not around anyway.I also have leased the property next door 400+ sqm to build a larger facility and I expect once done the shower will see a lot more activity.