Poor Choices / Poor Outcomes.... Never Had A Chance....

[i am bob]

Ok, my turn again!Now that I have got everybody saying I missed something, yes, I did that intentionally. Why? Because I wanted to get the above out of my system - because I can't stand those who I spoke about above - and wanted to treat this other part as a more rational post.Special Needs Children! I am well aware of Special Needs and the different teaching required for this. The idea required is the same - you still need to start out with a well structured and controlled environment. And the kids will need longer to teach or will not be able to do all the things other children can. Their interest in learning has to be maintained at the highest levels for them to perform at their best. Not all will be able to reach a level that allows them to continue on to secondary education, in fact many will not! But as long as they can learn to be able to pursue a living of some kind... To be able to use the skills they are capable of! And to want to always pursue advancing these skills! A different kind of learning but one that hopefully will produce better citizens for this world and less dependence on a welfare state to get everything for free.My views are ones I developed over the years of having 2 boys in regular classes and my daughter who participated in special needs classes due to physical and mental difficulties. Did my daughter succeed in doing her best in regards to her education? Her graduation resulted in, as she wheeled across to receive her diploma, a standing ovation from every teacher and student in the school along with every parent who had the good fortune to meet her! She is now employed with a group where she can work to the best of her abilities and learn to reach past her limitations even further. She told me once that she didn't want to be a "welfare user" but would do any job she could! She has succeeded very well!

[OnMyWay]

There are many good points made here but I tend to agree with Bruce's original theory. Each generation has changes in values and musical tastes, etc., but.....When I was in high school, we all had long hair and adored Led Zeppelin, among others. Led Zeppelin was of course hated by most parents of the time and that hard rock was going to turn us all into criminals and drug addicts! Somehow we survived. I won't condemn all rap style music but much of it seems to have no redeeming value and as Bruce said, they do not seem to be surviving. Here is something that was posted on Facebook that I hope you will find amusing and relevant!

[i am bob]

Funny thing is I think a lot of people are confusing what they think of rap with gangsta, hip-hop, pop, and good old ska even... the music still breaks down into several more groups and sub-groups but I think the 3 are all most people can figure out without a bunch of diagrams... not being sarcastic guys... look at rock! rock and roll, rock, hard rock, metal, death metal, new rock, new age, new wave and the list keeps on going.... some of it doesn't even belong to rock anymore... ie: southern rock is now considered country... and what would you categorize a band like Linkin Park as? (you older guys - think back to the start with Aerosmith and Run DMC as one band) what started out being called rap isn't just plain rap anymore either... there are even a few blue grass / rap combinations coming on strong now! can't wait to see how the common folk handle this one! it does get kind of hard to make disparaging remarks when they keep changing the name and the game... :mocking:I probably could have put this one under your other post but it still fits in here too!

Edited February 24, 2012 by i am bob

[Tatoosh]

I salute you and your daughter, I am bob, that is no small accomplishment and it was filled with challenges through out the process, I am sure. And those challenges have led to a lot of satisfaction seeing her succeed to the best of her abilities. Individuals with special needs can contribute to society. I sometimes make jokes about politicians being in that category, but I really do a disservice to the real heroes, those with disabilities that rise above what are seen as limitations. Sometimes those limitations are paths for them to show us better ways of doing things. Temple Grandin, a woman who has Aspergers Syndrome (aka High Functioning Autism) was extremely challenged trying to deal with her world, but she managed to earn college degrees and then, using her disabilities as a lens to understand animals, redesigned the way cattle were handled at meat packing/slaughter houses. She made the system much more humane, less expensive, and now over half the slaughter houses in the USA use her designs. Almost every meat eater in the USA has better quality meat due to her supposed "affliction".Education, whether for "typical" children or "special needs" children, is complex as JJR points out. It has many aspects, there are many strategies or approaches, and there are some people that are more effective teachers than others. There are vested interests, whether the school board paying the bills, the teachers union trying to make sure their members have a good income and working conditions, and parents who want their kid to succeed. The school system is never immune to pressures, budget considerations, and ultimately the public that pays the bills. I was very pleasantly surprised to find a public Special Education school in the Philippines that had real infrastructure. Something not found in most public schools here. Teachers had computers, printers and scanners in their classroom. There were televisions with cable access and dvd players for the teachers to use as part of their instruction. The rooms were designed to give the children a controlled environment that didn't distract them with outside noise. Very impressive stuff for a public school here. Even motivated and trained teachers committed to their students. It was probably the high point in terms of public education I've seen here.

[i am bob]

I salute you and your daughter, I am bob, that is no small accomplishment and it was filled with challenges through out the process, I am sure. And those challenges have led to a lot of satisfaction seeing her succeed to the best of her abilities.Individuals with special needs can contribute to society. I sometimes make jokes about politicians being in that category, but I really do a disservice to the real heroes, those with disabilities that rise above what are seen as limitations. Sometimes those limitations are paths for them to show us better ways of doing things. Temple Grandin, a woman who has Aspergers Syndrome (aka High Functioning Autism) was extremely challenged trying to deal with her world, but she managed to earn college degrees and then, using her disabilities as a lens to understand animals, redesigned the way cattle were handled at meat packing/slaughter houses. She made the system much more humane, less expensive, and now over half the slaughter houses in the USA use her designs. Almost every meat eater in the USA has better quality meat due to her supposed "affliction".Education, whether for "typical" children or "special needs" children, is complex as JJR points out. It has many aspects, there are many strategies or approaches, and there are some people that are more effective teachers than others. There are vested interests, whether the school board paying the bills, the teachers union trying to make sure their members have a good income and working conditions, and parents who want their kid to succeed. The school system is never immune to pressures, budget considerations, and ultimately the public that pays the bills.I was very pleasantly surprised to find a public Special Education school in the Philippines that had real infrastructure. Something not found in most public schools here. Teachers had computers, printers and scanners in their classroom. There were televisions with cable access and dvd players for the teachers to use as part of their instruction. The rooms were designed to give the children a controlled environment that didn't distract them with outside noise. Very impressive stuff for a public school here. Even motivated and trained teachers committed to their students. It was probably the high point in terms of public education I've seen here.

I have often said the same about politicians... And I'm constantly apologizing for those I know who fall within the special needs community for doing so... Such an insult comparing them to politicians! If I was to write how I fully feel about our school systems along with the other areas our social network is failing, well, I don't think anyone would have the time to read a 4 inch thick book. There is so much that is wrong and then again so many things that are so right!!! If we could keep the good and dump the bad would be so great! Unfortunately special interest groups, unions and government will prevent anything from being fixed properly. Sometimes I kind of wish we could move back to how things were thought to be run in the political and social systems of the 1940s and 50s. Not perfect but the popular idea was to do our best no matter who we were - student, teacher, politician, journalism, parents, and so on!Almost forgot... There is also a special needs school in Toledo City who are very motivated. Not that long ago they were able to achieve government sponsorship to ensure that they have the equipment they need. From what I hear the teachers are also very special and dedicated.My own special someone is currently partaking in the SpEd course as well. I know she will also be a very dedicated and inspiring teacher! Edited February 25, 2012 by i am bob

[Jollygoodfellow]

I'm getting a bit sick of this,there are certain sections of the forum which are NOT necessarily about the Philippines,they are off topics even though it would be better if it is kept to Philippines topics where possible.The world events forum is for all world events or not Philippines topics and if you have access to the,The chatterbox Forum then almost any subject can be discussed there.Here we see the first post is related to the Philippines and the rest has gone to where ever.Think about why people join a Philippines forum,usually to learn or discuss matters that will involve their move to the Philippines or general advice on living in the Philippines.So when using the Philippines side of the forum could you all keep it some where near the Philippines side of the topic or at least start it some where that new members wont think,"whats the point of being here"JGF

[JJReyes]

Turning back to the Philippines. Public education in the Philippines was actually introduced by Americans with the arrival of teachers from the United States known collectively as, "Thomasites." There was actually a group that came earlier, but the largest contingency arrived in an army troop transport ship, the USS Thomas. This was after the Spanish-American War when the United States decided to keep the Philippines as a colony. The teachers were young, enthusiastic, idealists from the best American universities. Quality surpassed the instruction offered by the Spanish Catholic and convent schools. Children who attended the public schools would tease their friends in private schools about being so dumb the American teachers did not want them. Instruction was in English.During the Commonwealth era starting in 1935, the No. 1 car plate was assigned to President Manuel L. Quezon. The No. 2 car plate was for the vice president. The secretary for public instruction received the No. 3 plate. It was suppose to symbolize the importance of education. General Douglas MacArthur was not happy with the the number assigned to him. He instructed his staff to replace it with three stars, his military rank at the time. Unfortunately, public education in the Philippines deteriorated starting with budget cuts in the early 60's. They started by eliminating one year, then another to save money. There is no middle school, so public education is a Grade 1 to 10 program, compared to the American Grade 1 to 12. They are now trying to return two additional years to public education.

[Tatoosh]

Adding years to the education requirement is utter rubbish until they correct the system that allows unqualified teachers to purchase their credentials. Then those folks get promotion to head teacher positions by contributing a television or some similar gift to their principal or higher up. I don't mean that all the public schools are corrupt, but many are, particularly the farther they get away from oversight. Similarly, teachers in schools that are distant from their administrators, often spend their "class time" sipping coffee and chatting with fellow teachers, particularly if their students are not in the top levels of that grade. They consider their students "stupid" and not worth the time to educate. Two more years of being taught by incapable, unqualified teachers will not improve anything in the Philippines except provide a few more jobs for trash educators. The first thing they need to do is clean up the corruption in the PRC process, then weed out the bad teachers that are incompetent or purchased their certifications. Until the "powers that be" take care of that, it really is a cesspool of education that teaches dishonesty. The teachers lie and cheat their way to their jobs, then steal the student's chances to get a good education. It is an utter boatload of ****!

Edited February 26, 2012 by Tatoosh

[Bruce]

Adding years to the education requirement is utter rubbish until they correct the system that allows unqualified teachers to purchase their credentials. Then those folks get promotion to head teacher positions by contributing a television or some similar gift to their principal or higher up. I don't mean that all the public schools are corrupt, but many are, particularly the farther they get away from oversight. Similarly, teachers in schools that are distant from their administrators, often spend their "class time" sipping coffee and chatting with fellow teachers, particularly if their students are not in the top levels of that grade. They consider their students "stupid" and not worth the time to educate.Two more years of being taught by incapable, unqualified teachers will not improve anything in the Philippines except provide a few more jobs for trash educators. The first thing they need to do is clean up the corruption in the PRC process, then weed out the bad teachers that are incompetent or purchased their certifications. Until the "powers that be" take care of that, it really is a cesspool of education that teaches dishonesty. The teachers lie and cheat their way to their jobs, then steal the student's chances to get a good education. It is an utter boatload of ****!

Out here on Samar... it can take 5 years or more for a teaching job to open unless the government is opeing a new school. Jobs are given first to applicants that pay a bit of their salary to the person who hired them.I have an 8 yr old I sponser and she and her classmates are often at the teacher's house doing her laundry and cleaning.... It is basically a two school type of system. The pubic schools for basic skills and the ability of the government to say it has schools. Cost me about $100 a year for all fees, and projects and clothes for 1 kid. Then there are private schools which are much better rated and actually have a more structured school day.School is of course "optional!.....