Wind Generated Power - Is It Feasible In The Philippines?

[Jake]

there is a website that gives lots of interesting stuff on building your own solar and wind power generators just google .power4home.

Thank you Curley for your inputs on wind generators. You know, NorthCal Mike and I had a good long

phone conversation about this topic. I've learned a lot from him such as the difference between forklift

and deep cycle batteries. I'm beginning to have some serious thought about this system installed in my

home. Actually small and portable wind generation is already being applied in live-aboard boats and

mobile homes.

During the many and unpredictable blackouts throughout the Philippines, it would be nice if I could just

have 4 hours of battery power to run a couple fans and small refrigerator. I just need perhaps a total

of 5000 watt max to run my bare essentials during a blackout.

At this point, it's still a toss up between a portable wind mill system or an electrical generator. Any pros

and cons between the two?

I was looking at a 600 watt system that they say will give you 5 hours at 3000 watts for every hour of charging. Of course they also say you need a "large bank of batteries"and so on. I think I would rather go with a larger capacity wind gennie, stick an inverter and filter on it and go from there - but only if I am somewhere that has sufficient wind all the time. Either that or go with a solar/wind combined system.

Please forgive me Bob.....I'm still learning the system. My understanding is that you only need

a small wind turbine that can provide 12vdc, 50 amps max (600 watt) of recharge power for a

bank of batteries. And then the 12vdc output from the batteries (with more amps) is connected

to a power inverter (12vdc to 220vac) for the main feed to your house. Interesting that you

mentioned a filter.

Boy.....do I have a lot to learn!

[Beachboy]

I found a good article on batteries. It's written for ham radio operators but it has lots of good stuff on charging/discharging, amp flow etc.

Maximum draw on a battery shouldn't be greater than 1/10 of it's amp-hr rating. (Car battery is 4.5 amp hours so max draw shouldn't be greater than 4 amps). Charging voltage should never cause a current flow greater than 1/4 quarter the amp hour rating, etc.

Good bed time reading. :cheersty:

http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html

[Beachboy]

wind mill system or an electrical generator. Any pros and cons between the two?

What about a generator powered by Auto LP? Somebody's got to check my math and research, but this solution looks very attractive.

I'm looking at a Buffalo 7000w generator factory made for LP. It consumes 20 lb (9 kg) for 8 hours at 50% load (3000 watts). That's 1.13 kg of LP per hour.

Using a figure of .55 kg/liter you're consuming about 2 liters per hour. The price of Auto LP in Cebu is 41 ps/liter. So you fuel cost is 82 ps/hr for 3kw. That's about 27ps/kwh -- not much higher than the electric company rate in Cebu.

Of course you'd run the generator off cooking gas, but I'm not sure of the difference between Auto LP and Cooking Gas so I used LP data.

Cost: The Buffalo (not recommending the brand -- I'm using it here because I found data on it ) cost about $800 in the US. If you assume shipping and duties, etc push the cost to $1200 this is still a lot cheaper than a wind gen. set up. It comes with 240vac and 12v Dc out puts and it has enough reserve to kick start your fridge. Honda, Yamaha, etc has similar units.

Pros: Because you're not using petrol, it's safe to keep it inside so it won't "walk away". You don't have to worry about batteries, inverters, wiring, etc. Mechanically stronger, probably less maintenance. Works well in typhoons. Portable: can be driven and/or rolled to other places to power chain saws and other equipment.

Cons: Ugly. (Solution: Cover it with a table cloth). Energy isn't "free". But it's really not free with wind either because you are consuming the batteries. These must be replaced sooner or later.

It's something to think about. I need to check the research again. :cheersty:

[Curley]

wind mill system or an electrical generator. Any pros and cons between the two?

What about a generator powered by Auto LP? Somebody's got to check my math and research, but this solution looks very attractive.

I'm looking at a Buffalo 7000w generator factory made for LP. It consumes 20 lb (9 kg) for 8 hours at 50% load (3000 watts). That's 1.13 kg of LP per hour.

Using a figure of .55 kg/liter you're consuming about 2 liters per hour. The price of Auto LP in Cebu is 41 ps/liter. So you fuel cost is 82 ps/hr for 3kw. That's about 27ps/kwh -- not much higher than the electric company rate in Cebu.

Of course you'd run the generator off cooking gas, but I'm not sure of the difference between Auto LP and Cooking Gas so I used LP data.

Cost: The Buffalo (not recommending the brand -- I'm using it here because I found data on it ) cost about $800 in the US. If you assume shipping and duties, etc push the cost to $1200 this is still a lot cheaper than a wind gen. set up. It comes with 240vac and 12v Dc out puts and it has enough reserve to kick start your fridge. Honda, Yamaha, etc has similar units.

Pros: Because you're not using petrol, it's safe to keep it inside so it won't "walk away". You don't have to worry about batteries, inverters, wiring, etc. Mechanically stronger, probably less maintenance. Works well in typhoons. Portable: can be driven and/or rolled to other places to power chain saws and other equipment.

Cons: Ugly. (Solution: Cover it with a table cloth). Energy isn't "free". But it's really not free with wind either because you are consuming the batteries. These must be replaced sooner or later.

It's something to think about. I need to check the research again. :cheersty:

I'm too pissed to answer properly but LPG is "safe"? ..... hold on buddy.............. Also I think home use LPG is a bit more expensive..... engines running on lpg do not last that long.....nor do petrol engines.... diesel for long life and safety. With wind and solar you can use them ALL the time to save power costs .... not just at power brown outs/black outs.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Curley

[Beachboy]

I'm too pissed to answer properly

Haha .. I hope you enjoy your hangover. It's easy to talk "apples and oranges" here. I'm thinking of back-up power. As for LPG being "safe" I was thinking about the safety of storing a generator in my house. If it's a gasoline generator, I'd have to drain the tank and store the gasoline outside. LPG can be stored inside. I've been informed that most homes use it for cooking.

In terms of longevity, your're right. Diesels are better. The heavy duty ones will last forever .. but 5-7K gen costs about $5000 or more. I see some cheaper diesels -- $1200 for 5k but I'm not sure if they would last longer than a gasoline rig .. maybe they would. I'm thinking in terms of simplicity. Since you have LPG in your house, why not run the generator on that? If the engine wears out, replace it. A 16hp B&S engines costs about $400. Chances are you can have it repaired in the Phils for much less, but I don't know. If your diesel needs repair (and it will if the fuel is dirty) that might not be so cheap.

I'm pretty confident about my price for LPG. The 11 kg tanks cost from 720-820ps depending on location, or 65-75 ps/kg. (There was a Sunstar article about the government investigating why there such price difference all over the country.) My Buffalo generator burning 1.12 kg per hour to produce 3Kw would cost 28ps/kwh max.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still see batteries being the weakest part of wind/solar. I'm looking at an inexpensive Chinese deep cycle battery that costs $100. 6V/390 Amp-hr and you can charge/discharge it for 900 cycles. 1 cycle gives you 2 KWh (6*390). So the battery gives you 1800 kwh (2*900) before breaking down. That comes out to 1800kwh/$100 or $1.80/kwh or about 75 ps per kwh. Even if the wind-solar system is completely maintenance free, you still can't get around this cost. It's too expensive for everyday power. The wind system can't be used in typhoons and if you get 3-4 days of heavy cloud cover the solar system won't keep your batteries charged.

I like my cheapie cooking gas generator, but that's just me. And don't worry, when the power is out you can still come to my house for a cold beer and so a/c. :cheersty:

Edited October 19, 2012 by Beachboy

[Curley]

You're quite right, battery replacement is the big downer on alternative sources of energy. I don't know about the Phils but is their cooking gas Butane? Most cars run on Propane I think, something to check out. Also the price and availability of the lpg gennies in the Phils, prices for just about everything are usually much cheaper in the states.l

[Thomas]

How about run the generator by using gasification? (=Make gas of firewood, waste material or such, similar to how they drove cars during WW II.)

I haven't checked it compleete yet, but I believe I will go for that regularly, IF I start a business where I get burnable waste material. Mainly to drive my business mashines to not get production stoped during brown-/blackouts, but for my home too.

Disadvantages: Loud as a gas/diesel, or even louder, I believe, if use the firewood in a steam engine type.

More work to handle.

But less pollution, so can be used OK inside too even without chimney.

Do anyone in this forum have experience of having a gasification car or steam engine driven generator?

--

Concerning batteries: Yes, needed for backups to be SURE for wind and sun, because they don't add energy allways :)

But gasification runned generators don't need batteries, because they can be runned when needed (but risk get waste if produce more than needed for the moment, but need less batteries anyway.)

[Curley]

How about run the generator by using gasification? (=Make gas of firewood, waste material or such, similar to how they drove cars during WW II.)

I haven't checked it compleete yet, but I believe I will go for that regularly, IF I start a business where I get burnable waste material. Mainly to drive my business mashines to not get production stoped during brown-/blackouts, but for my home too.

Disadvantages: Loud as a gas/diesel, or even louder, I believe, if use the firewood in a steam engine type.

More work to handle.

But less pollution, so can be used OK inside too even without chimney.

Do anyone in this forum have experience of having a gasification car or steam engine driven generator?

--

Concerning batteries: Yes, needed for backups to be SURE for wind and sun, because they don't add energy allways :)

But gasification runned generators don't need batteries, because they can be runned when needed (but risk get waste if produce more than needed for the moment, but need less batteries anyway.)

Steam driven? You would need someone constantly feeding your fire unless you mean to produce gas from waste and then burn the gas to make the steam?

If you don't draw any power from the generator then many will go into idle mode or stop. The more power you draw from your genny the harder the engine will have to work which means it burns more fuel.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Curley

[Thomas]

How about run the generator by using gasification? (=Make gas of firewood, waste material or such, similar to how they drove cars during WW II.)

I haven't checked it compleete yet, but I believe I will go for that regularly, IF I start a business where I get burnable waste material. Mainly to drive my business mashines to not get production stoped during brown-/blackouts, but for my home too.

Disadvantages: Loud as a gas/diesel, or even louder, I believe, if use the firewood in a steam engine type.

More work to handle.

But less pollution, so can be used OK inside too even without chimney.

Do anyone in this forum have experience of having a gasification car or steam engine driven generator?

--

Concerning batteries: Yes, needed for backups to be SURE for wind and sun, because they don't add energy allways :)

But gasification runned generators don't need batteries, because they can be runned when needed (but risk get waste if produce more than needed for the moment, but need less batteries anyway.)

Steam driven? You would need someone constantly feeding your fire unless you mean to produce gas from waste and then burn the gas to make the steam?

If you don't draw any power from the generator then many will go into idle mode or stop. The more power you draw from your genny the harder the engine will have to work which means it burns more fuel.

Well. Burners can be made feed by screw constructions puting pellets into the burner bit by bit,

but yes they need to be checked and handled now and then, I suppose = some more work needed than petrol driven.

Oh do even the least expensive petrol driven generators have such automatic output adjusting?

No big difference if having such automatic function or not, if running the gas/steam driven generator regularly, the extra produced electric will go into the grid, being sold. (If they allow it as they do in some countries. There can be some problem to make the own produced electricity having steady enough power to suit the public grid.)

[miguelsp]

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