Kiva -- Deserves An Update

[earthdome]

I went into the KIVA site and started reading the FAQs (under the Help tab). I then pulled up the page for one of the "partners" in the Philippines. Best I can see, yes, the "partner" is bringing in a fair chunk of the change - if you call the small amounts that they have loaned out a "chunk"....! And, further investigation into the "partners" themselves show that the loans are not all that they do. One is involved in lower costing pharmaceuticals for the poor, disaster relief, clinics, and other social programs for the poor or needy. So maybe letting them have that extra chunk of interest isn't a bad idea? Besides, isn't this more of a donation to help the poor and disadvantaged program where you actually can get your donation back?

Agreed. This is providing capital so people can start some small venture to help improve their lives rather than giving them handouts.

This can be the best sort of charity. Note this is not an endorsement of Kiva yet since I have not done my own research yet.

[Dr. Cockroach]

Actually, I don't believe there is any charity around, if you ask me? Call me anything you like, but I don't believe much in intermediaries willing to help others out of their good heart!

However, with Kiva.org, I found out that if I donate $25 dollars, I could get it back after a while. Which was what I had tried first and worked.

If I get my whole $25 dollars back, do I really care if others benefited from it? Of course! I would love to. It don't matter to me who took how much. Somebody somewhere did get something out of it and I got it all back!

It's not like giving $25 and have it sliced and diced by some administration fees where only 10 cents get delivered and then it's over?

If that's what's stopping you, then why not try it with $25 dollars and taste the waters, first, and see? You lose it, you can stop! It's not much money to lose any was!

[Thomas]

Actually, I don't believe there is any charity around, if you ask me?

Why? :)

(E g I have worked much volontaringly since I were in primary school. I haven't given any money directly, but let organisations get pay for work I have done. An other time I guaranteed an organisation wouldn't lose any money, if a project would get a minus result, but it earned money, so I got my money back.)

Geting a smiley from a child is good reward :)

Besides, isn't this more of a donation to help the poor and disadvantaged program where you actually can get your donation back

I still wonder a bit if OTHER than the poor get more than fair shares. It's fair partners get a fair share for their education work, but it isn't far IF Kiva bosses has very high salaries.

(I DON'T know if they have have, but I know other "aid" organisations where bosses have very high salaries and after corruption there are almost nothing left to the poor :unsure: Now I have forgot which aid organisation it was - I just send an email - I "applied" to their very high paid "Effectivity boss" job and told in my application among the first I will do is working for LOWERING the high salaries bosses have. I didn't get the job... :hystery:

I find it OK aid bosses earn a LOW "kano salary" so they can do it full time, but I find it outrageous when aid bosses earn very much, making less left for the poor, and idealistic people work for free... :unsure:

[Beachboy]

Kiva bosses has very high salaries.

If you read the Kiva FAQ you will note that none of your loan money goes to paying Kiva salaries. Part of the interest collected on the loan is returned to you and part is retained by the micro-finance agency to cover their costs.

If taking money in at an annual rate of 4% and loaning in out at 11% (profit margin 3.5%) seems successive consider that American banks are now taking money in at 1% and loaning it out at 7% (profit margin 14%).

Poor people do not have access to banks. If their family and friends cannot help, they must to go informal money lenders (e.g loan sharks). A good example is the so called "Bumbai" loans in Manila. The business is dominated by Indian Sikhs (Bumbai = Bombay). The loan must be repaid in daily increments and completely repaid in a month. They use a 5/6 formula. If you borrow 500 pesos you must repay 600 pesos in 30 days (20 pesos a day). Interest is only 20% a month. (= 790% compounded annual rate.)

What happens if you fail to pay? Thugs are cheap to hire in the Phils -- especially if you are earning 790%.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Beachboy

[Dr. Cockroach]

Actually, I don't believe there is any charity around, if you ask me?

Why? :)

(E g I have worked much volontaringly since I were in primary school. I haven't given any money directly, but let organisations get pay for work I have done. An other time I guaranteed an organisation wouldn't lose any money, if a project would get a minus result, but it earned money, so I got my money back.)

Geting a smiley from a child is good reward :)

Hmmm... Ya. Why would anybody want to take my money and hand it over to some one in need? Coz he/she loves my blue eyes?

With Kiva, I really don't care much about who benefits. The same amount comes back to me and I could pick another person to loan it to. If it benefit somebody somewhere, hey, I am game! :dance:

[Thomas]

Kiva bosses has very high salaries.

If you read the Kiva FAQ you will note that none of your loan money goes to paying Kiva salaries. Part of the interest collected on the loan is returned to you and part is retained by the micro-finance agency to cover their costs.

If taking money in at an annual rate of 4% and loaning in out at 11% (profit margin 3.5%) seems successive consider that American banks are now taking money in at 1% and loaning it out at 7% (profit margin 14%).

Poor people do not have access to banks. If their family and friends cannot help, they must to go informal money lenders (e.g loan sharks). A good example is the so called "Bumbai" loans in Manila. The business is dominated by Indian Sikhs (Bumbai = Bombay). The loan must be repaid in daily increments and completely repaid in a month. They use a 5/6 formula. If you borrow 500 pesos you must repay 600 pesos in 30 days (20 pesos a day). Interest is only 20% a month. (= 790% compounded annual rate.)

What happens if you fail to pay? Thugs are cheap to hire in the Phils -- especially if you are earning 790%.

You missed to quote my big "IF" when you quoted me :)

Bank: 1 > 7 = 6

KIVA; 4 > 11 = 7 = HIGHER.

If that goes to Kiva, then it goes to Kiva bosses salaries too from my money....

I have no problem with that IF their salaries aren't high. Are they high? That's the main question...

(I don't know about the very short loans, but for a bit biger 5-6 loans I have heared it's paid back in 100 or 120 days day by day normaly =ca146%.)

Actually, I don't believe there is any charity around, if you ask me?

Why? :)

(E g I have worked much volontaringly since I were in primary school. I haven't given any money directly, but let organisations get pay for work I have done. An other time I guaranteed an organisation wouldn't lose any money, if a project would get a minus result, but it earned money, so I got my money back.)

Geting a smiley from a child is good reward :)

Hmmm... Ya. Why would anybody want to take my money and hand it over to some one in need? Coz he/she loves my blue eyes?

With Kiva, I really don't care much about who benefits. The same amount comes back to me and I could pick another person to loan it to. If it benefit somebody somewhere, hey, I am game! :dance:

It's a big difference between:

A/ if the "middleman" work volontaringly/with low salaries

B/ or - as SOME "charity organisations" - make BOSSES rich.

I DON'T know which of these Kiva belong to.

Why do you think of puting your money in such projects, if you don't bother if the middleman get rich by it (=scam) or not - paid by the POOR...?

--

I still DON'T say if Kiva belongs to the good or the bad. Their information don't tell. It depends of if they get fair pay or to much, and how good education to the poor are included in the (e g 36 %) interest they pay.

[i am bob]

Well, if Bloomburg Businessweek is as accurate as usual, the key executives at Kiva aren't making much either. Look for the chart on the right hand side of the page. Average pay for the PEx are the blue lines on the graph.

http://investing.bus...vcapId=24463668

So the big question now is... How much the partner companies (the office the people go to for the loans) are making? Each one will be different so you will have to do your own research if you want the answe

Edited October 18, 2012 by I am bob

[Thomas]

Well, if Bloomburg Businessweek is as accurate as usual, the key executives at Kiva aren't making much either. Look for the chart on the right hand side of the page. Average pay for the PEx are the blue lines on the graph.

http://investing.bus...vcapId=24463668

So the big question now is... How much the partner companies (the office the people go to for the loans) are making? Each one will be different so you will have to do your own research if you want the answe

Their salaries seem OK.

IF the partners give OK education, I find their share OK. (If I understand the information corect they get 25 % ot mostly small loans. But then they both educate and have to drive to meet the loan takers regularly, I asume. If I remember correct Gamesh go/went to the villages once a week.)

[OnMyWay]

I made my first 3 Kiva loans today. I'll see how this goes and then consider a few more. As mentioned, a lot of money has to be spent to administer all of this, so I don't mind some of the costs mentioned. I just hope that the end result does help these small businesses get ahead and even hire some other people.