Living The Dream

[Bruce]

There are at least 2 aspects to selling land. OWNED land and then LIVED ON land. Often, especially in populated areas, there are so many squatters that unless you have inhouse attorneys and a lot of money, you will never get rid of them. And they know it. They are born there live there and die there and by the time YOU think about buying / selling, it may have been 50+ years that the squatter family has lived there and to the youger ones, THIS is their land.

 

But they do sell it. Cheap. By our standards of course. I bought a house on a hill side for a squatter family 2 years ago. Cost me less than $400 or so if I remember correctly. No land title, just a Bill of Sale for the house, filled out in the family name. No big deal, approved by the barangay captain. Any real legal rights for the family, no. But to them it is their house and to the people living in that area, it is their house.

 

So unless a house / lot is being marketed to a Kano, the seller may not even think about the legality of the sale. Marketed to another Pinoy and sold to another Pinoy as per local customs. And there really are no issues for them unless the 'real' land owner wants to develop the land and in lloking at the actual costs to get all to vacate the entire area and then develop the land, it is cost prohibitive, so is it not done. life continues on....    

[i am bob]

There are at least 2 aspects to selling land. OWNED land and then LIVED ON land. Often, especially in populated areas, there are so many squatters that unless you have inhouse attorneys and a lot of money, you will never get rid of them. And they know it. They are born there live there and die there and by the time YOU think about buying / selling, it may have been 50+ years that the squatter family has lived there and to the youger ones, THIS is their land.

 

But they do sell it. Cheap. By our standards of course. I bought a house on a hill side for a squatter family 2 years ago. Cost me less than $400 or so if I remember correctly. No land title, just a Bill of Sale for the house, filled out in the family name. No big deal, approved by the barangay captain. Any real legal rights for the family, no. But to them it is their house and to the people living in that area, it is their house.

 

So unless a house / lot is being marketed to a Kano, the seller may not even think about the legality of the sale. Marketed to another Pinoy and sold to another Pinoy as per local customs. And there really are no issues for them unless the 'real' land owner wants to develop the land and in lloking at the actual costs to get all to vacate the entire area and then develop the land, it is cost prohibitive, so is it not done. life continues on....    

Probably the best explanation I have ever heard.  Thanks Bruce!

[RWTom]

Good info...thanks for replies.  

 

Most of the prices on-line and in Newspapers for land, houses, cars, etc. are greatly inflated.  The advertiser is hoping a sucker will fall for his outragious price and he will get rich.

 

Its best to have a Filipino who you trust to find the land in person.  The person needs to be smart and know how to negotiate a lower price because most Filipinos ask for more than they are willing to take. For example, the owner of the lot my wife and I wanted to buy was asking P350 per sq meter.  A few nights later I told my wife to call the owner and offer P250.  The owner agreed so we purchased the lot.

Thanks for the info.  I suspected that was the case.  A couple of questions if you don't mind: What size lot did you purchase?  Do you have a sea view?  Have you ever heard of any land with a sea view for sale as low as 25p per sq meter; as Thomas has?

 

The lot I purchased is 1,000 sq meters, which my wife and I decided is big enough enough for us.  We looked at several lots before we found one where the people could prove they were the owners and there were concrete surveyor markers.  Most people we talked to were only pretending to be the owner or they couldn't prove they were the owners by the proper documents. And, there were no surveyor markers.  They would say the lot ends at that coconut tree or those bushes.  Concrete markers last for many years, so if there's no markers I would be very suspicious.  Most people didn't have a current Tax Declaration and receipts as proof that they have been paying the yearly taxes.

 

We don't have a sea view but we are on a hill top 225 meters above sea level which means there's usually a good breeze and the air is very clean compared to being close to sea level and especially near a city or highway where there's lots of air pollution from smoke and dust.  The air and sound pollution is horrible were we live now so we can't wait to build our home on our lot and move there.  Its a good neighborhood and we already have some good friends there.

 

I don't believe you will find any land on Cebu for P25 per meter and even if you did it would be far away from the sea.  And, there may not be any electricity, water, or Internet.  Those are three major things you have to consider when looking for a lot to build a home on. Some places you can get by without city water by drilling a well but if there's no Internet in the area there's not much you can do about it.  Within the next three years the government plans to start transmitting Internet over some unused TV channels which means most areas could receive Internet regardless of where they live.  Its already being tested in a few areas in Manila, Cebu City and in Mindanao, so maybe Internet coverage will greatly improve some day.

 

My wife is from Mindanao and her family still lives there.  Its possible to buy land there with a sea view for P25 per meter but most foreigners chose not to live there due to not being as safe as other Islands.  Some people say there city of Surigao or Davao is safe and then you hear about a Canadian or an American being murdered in their home or hotel room. Doesn't sound that safe to me.  I have been living on Cebu for over three years and I don't remember hearing of any foreigner being murdered here, which tells me Cebu is a lot safer than Mindanao where a few foreigners are murdered each year.

 

Another thing about buying land for P25 per meter, you probably can't find a 1,000 sq meter lot for that price.  Usually they are tying selling one or more hectares, which is 10,000 sq meters.

great info...thanks for the reply

[BrettGC]

Well my dream starts in April-May.  As most of you know I'll be on a navy pension (80k pesos/month), which after much research is more than ample for my needs.  I also have superannuation waiting (about 300k AUD) when I turn 65 (this has been frustrating - over the years I've watched the age I can access that money slowly rise from 55 to 65 due to changing superannuation laws here in Australia - I'm just young enough to put me at the outer limit, 44 this week).  We're in an unfortunate situation here in Australia that unless we can prove residency in Australia, even as Australian citizens we have absolutely no access to our much lauded (at times erroneously) free medical system or government aged pensions - this despite the fact I still pay tax and the Medicare levy out of my navy pension, we have to live in Australia to receive the benefit.  To try to counter this I own an unit/condo/apartment in Sydney that I'm going to use as my address here in Aust - it's also my safety net if things go pear-shaped in PI, it's basically just about paid itself off so the extra income from that will be nice as well (bugger the negative gearing, rather have the cash flow now, rather than waiting for the tax year to tick over) and I've had the same tenants for 5 years whom I deal with directly and have become quite good friends with over the years.  Why the concern?  Well due to my pension I fail the income test for the aged pension anyway so not trying to pull a shifty there, but I'm a little worried about the quality of medical care in PI compared to Aust and after talking to friends that live there justifiably so.  It may be incredibly cheaper but....  Due to some pretty serious rugby incidents years ago I've had reconstructions on both knees and they're due to be redone in about 5 years time. 

 

Anyway, my rambling concerns aside and to get back on topic, that's how I intend live the dream :).

[Americano]

A foreigner buying land from a Filipino who is not the legal owner is similar to buying stolen property from someone. You can keep the property and pretend its yours until the real owner finds out that you have his property or are claiming his property is yours.  Then he can take his property back and you are left with nothing.  And, don't expect to get your money back because you never will.

 

Also, a Deed of Absolute Sale is not proof of ownership and a Tax Declaration of Real Property is not proof of ownership.  You need both of those documents but the proof of ownership is a legal Original Certificate of Title.

 

Filipinos squat on land and get away with it often but let a Foreigner try squatting on land and the owner will start seeing big dollar $$$ signs.  You may get the chance to buy the land from the real owner for a high price but you won't get any credit for the money you already paid to the squatter or the person pretending to be the owner.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Americano

[Bruce]

A foreigner buying land from a Filipino who is not the legal owner is similar to buying stolen property from someone. You can keep the property and pretend its yours until the real owner finds out that you have his property or are claiming his property is yours.  Then he can take his property back and you are left with nothing.  And, don't expect to get your money back because you never will.

 

Also, a Deed of Absolute Sale is not proof of ownership and a Tax Declaration of Real Property is not proof of ownership.  You need both of those documents but the proof of ownership is a legal Original Certificate of Title.

 

Filipinos squat on land and get away with it often but let a Foreigner try squatting on land and the owner will start seeing big dollar $$$ signs.  You may get the chance to buy the land from the real owner for a high price but you won't get any credit for the money you already paid to the squatter or the person pretending to be the owner.

 

That is more for intentional fraud. But the basic pinoy to pinoy selling of a house on squatter land is not fraud. Think of it more like in the US where there are a few land leases left. You may own the house but lease the land, forever, at a very low price. Was popular back in the 1950's when developing a large area. The land owner would collect as little as $20 a year, x 500 houses. GOOD back in the 1950's. Often the land owner dies and the family is not aware of the leases and they go unpaid for many many years.

[Retired in Samar]

I'm retiring early too.  I'm 48 and retired quit my job at Christmas.  I am closing on the house here in Texas next week (turning 49 next week also) and will be moving in mid Feb!   I will have almost nothing in savings (bad idea, oh well) and will be on a small veterans disability check until I can actually retire.  So at 55 (in 6 years) I can retire from my job of 15 years and get a small retirement check, then at age 60 I can retire from a job I only had 4 years (20 years ago) and get twice as much as my real jobs retirement!   I will have to budget carefully for the first 5 years, the next 5 will be more comfortable, then after that I just have to live to see 60 and will be doing very well  :)

 

So I am making my dream come true earlier than I planned and hope it works out.  

So what part of Texas are you coming from and where are you planning on hanging your hat? My hat will hang in Samar.

[Americano]

Leasing land in the Philippines is not expensive in most rural areas, Mindanao being one of the least expensive areas. For example, my wife and I are leasing two sections of land in Mindanao for her family so they can earn money harvesting coconuts, and fruits and growing vegetables. They can raise pigs and chickens too. They can basically do anything they want to on the land except for cutting down coconut or fruit trees. We are leasing 2 hectares for P20,000 and another 2 hectares from a different owner for P25,000.

The only thing that surprised me about leasing the land was the fact that when we decided to stop leasing the land, which could be one year, two years or longer, the owner has to return all of the money to us. Therefore its like the owner is get an interest free loan which he must pay back. In the USA when you lease land, a building, or a car you don't get your money back.

In the area where one of my sister-in-laws lives in Mindanao families rent the land their house is on which includes the land around the house for a garden or yard for only P10 per month or P100 per year if they pay in advance.

My sister-in-law in a relative of the land owner so she doesn't pay anything.

 

Selling land in the Philippines that you don't own is illegal but not prosecuted unless the owner files charges and takes them to court.  It hardly ever happens because the money will be long gone before the first hearing in court and the person will not have the money to repay it to you so you are out of even more money you spent filing charges and paying a lawyer.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Americano

[Thomas]

Leasing land in the Philippines is not expensive in most rural areas, Mindanao being one of the least expensive areas. For example, my wife and I are leasing two sections of land in Mindanao for her family so they can earn money harvesting coconuts, and fruits and growing vegetables. They can raise pigs and chickens too. They can basically do anything they want to on the land except for cutting down coconut or fruit trees. We are leasing 2 hectares for P20,000 and another 2 hectares from a different owner for P25,000. The only thing that surprised me about leasing the land was the fact that when we decided to stop leasing the land, which could be one year, two years or longer, the owner has to return all of the money to us. Therefore its like the owner is get an interest free loan which he must pay back. In the USA when you lease land, a building, or a car you don't get your money back.

Is it

/a Leasing 

/or is it a loan with the land as security?  

/Or something in between?

 

In Phili it's common to give loans with e g land as security, and until the loan is paid back the user right belong to the loan giver.

With the normaly very high interests in Phili ("5-6" loans = normaly 140 % per year) they pay back to you isn't as odd as it sounds.

[Americano]

Thomas,

In Bisayan or Visayan the word is geprendahan or the short form of the word is prenda and in Tagalog the word is Sangla, which means leasing with security, loaning with security or pawning with security.

In Bisayan or Visayan the word Utang has different means such as a loan or credit without security. Buying at a Sari-sari store and paying later is Utang. Someone loaning money to you without security in Utang. 5-6 loans are Utang. There's no security but you have to pay interest.

I hope I explained everything correctly.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Americano