Lying... For Self Preservation ( Not For Fun And Profit)

[Bruce]

Here are a few abstract thoughts on new relationships which are an after thought from another post. This post covers things that many already in Phils know, but the newer members may not. If this is telling you things you already know, then take a pass here.

 

Lying is generally thought to be a bad thing and discouraged in most societies. But there is an actual science to lying and lies are classified according to the intended purpose.

 

I am not talking about lying to cover a misdeed or theft or to blame someone else such as the dog for passing gas at the dinner table.    

 

I am talking about lies used perhaps even needed to protect yourself and your assets when entering into a new relationship.

 

In the US, there are a 'few' men who lie about their wealth or status to gain favor with women. Bad idea. Especially if they are upsize lies instead of downsize lies. Example is a lawn maintenance worker with a weathered face and dirty nails telling the woman at the bar he is a stock broker.... Unless she is really drunk or a poor assessor of people, that lie will not get you far. That is called an upsize lie. And not the purpose of this post.

 

The playing field is generally equal in one's home country. All raised in the same society and all understanding those nuances that are not taught, but simply learned along the way through life.

 

But when you are entering the dating area for a person from a different country, the rules may have changed drastically for you but................ NO ONE TOLD YOU the rules are different.

 

Simply put, a man from any 1st world country has a 'target' on his back. He is a comodity. A status symbol yes, but more than that, he represents financial stability. If he can afford to come to Phils, he can afford to take care of me is the general thinking.  

 

By telling some 'downsize' lies you can scare off the freeloaders and psycho rejects before you waste too much time and money. There ARE many quality ladies in Phils... But... they are ofen lost in or overshadowed by the more agressive women who are PROFESSIONALLY LOOKING for Mr. Right and the main qualification for Mr. Right is...... money. Your money to be exact. You need to be able to screen and make a decision and then say thanks, but no thanks in a short time or you will waste years of your life with relationships lasting 1-2-3 weeks each. (Jake, I really and trying to keep you out of it, buddy....)

 

Also, as a general warning, looks are an issue on the dating sites. MANY men had a preconceived idea on what they wanted in an Asian woman and that is what they looked for EXACTLY. And they found her. The PERFECT Asian women to marry...... But after a while, these men found that they had NOTHING in common with the new arm candy. So, while there is nothing wrong in looking for a women who is within tolerances of what you are looking for.... also remember that you may live with her and if she has nothing in common with you and that can get old fast.

 

So, back to lies.... downsize lies.

 

Your money... none of anyone business. Regardless of what you really have, your position is that you have about $1,000 / 40,000p to live on each month. No more, no 'budget' for family gifts.  

 

You are married 'back home' Even if you are not. Here is why. Being married is a block to an impulse marrige with the new woman. She knows this and this scares off the gold diggers. There will be NO quicky marriage and she must know this.

 

Your are looking to move TO the Philippines and not bring a wife BACK to your home country. This lie also scares off those who will put up with HELL from a man ..... until she gets her papers and then divorces you and starts to 'sponsor' her family to come over to her new country. Which was the plan all along. Alimony and citizenship..... Russian sleeper cell in the making.... Tell them there is no chance of them getting a trip to your country or any citizenship there.

 

All in all, do not tell whoppers about being 7th in line to the throne or that you won the lotto. No cloak and dagger crap about you and your MI5 / CIA days......

 

Just build a simple smoke screen about your assetts and your intentions until you find a woman who is interested in you and would be happy to live in a Nipa hut (OK a BIG Nipa Hut) with you..... Someone you have something in common with. Not just some long haired tanned legged spider masquarading as a simple helpless Pinay... oh so so shy (I hate shy personally)

 

In the end, lies that I 'have no real money" are much more easily explained and accepted than lies about winning the lottery and your post office pension of $75,000 USD a year... but Suprise Honey Ko..... I really have no money but the money I borrowed to come here.... you still love me... right.... Honey Ko.....????? Loser!

 

So learn to lie slightly until you are sure of the situation. This is not guarantee, but it does scare off the wolves and spiders who are looking for something quick and as soon as they see indications you are not Mr. Right, they are gone leaving the real women, the sincere women standing there for you to notice.

 

 

 

  

[relcarve25]

Lying is generally thought to be a bad thing and discouraged in most societies. But there is an actual science to lying and lies are classified according to the intended purpose.

 

   A very interesting Post Topic Bruce.  I agree with most of your reasoning and advice which is designed to assist those 'entering' the 'Relationship Minefield.'  If I may, however, I would like to extend and broaden the topic a little. I think that there are variants of the 'downsizing' lie. There is the type of lie that you are describing where you downsize the extent of your assets etc. for self protection but there is also the type of lie where you downsize the amount of information you decide to share with another person- either to protect that person from being hurt or to deliberately deceive them.

 

   Here I would like to move the discussion boundaries to include those of us who are in long term relationships- both within the Philippines and ABROAD. At present my wife and I are living in the UK and you will hardly be surprised to hear that we have built up quite a number of friendships with other mixed couples of similar ages and Philippine backgrounds. I have always been interested in seeing that MOST of the mixed marriages like my own have been pretty successful for a long time compared with the divorce statistics for internal British couples. BUT- and this is where lying comes in- my wife and I have recently encountered a difficult issue which appears to affect almost all Filipina/OLDER Foreigner relationships. A number of older husbands have stopped going out and attending social gatherings- this is happening increasingly among my peer group. What are their much younger, and often still very attractive wives to do? You can't expect them to just sit at home also. As we all know 'PEOPLE' are the centre of most Filipino's lives. Well!- recently my wife attended an 'all girls' night out with many of her friends only to find that, unknown to her, quite a large number of single and married Filipino men had been invited also. Of course there are very many Filipino men working in the UK having left their wives in the Philippines. These men are LONELY- seeking female company for a variety of reasons- including no doubt, with some, the possibility of striking up a relationship with a married Filipina whose husband has opted out of company. My wife came home and, as always, told me all about what had happened. Both of us felt very uneasy about this development but we talked openly about it and waited to see if it was a 'one off.' It wasn't!- from then on the same men seemed to crop up at every gathering, including those meant to be 'wives ONLY.' Now it so happens that although nearly seventy I am fortunate with my health and am very active physically. I attend everything other than 'all girls' events with my wife and we have a very close relationship. She has ALWAYS told me everything about what she does- but she appears to be very different from the norm as far as Filipinas are concerned. The other wives heard that my wife had told me about their fraternising with the Filipino men, and they were not happy. They took it for granted that , like them, she would lie to me- either by omission (not mentioning the men) or by denying their presence if I asked her. They closed ranks and admitted that they all lied to their own husbands about this and many other things. It was like a Filipina Secret Society which all Filipinas are expected to belong to and where one of the most basic rules is to lie to your husband if expedient, or to avoid trouble. To be honest it has made me look more carefully at what is happening in mixed relationships now.

 

   Maybe I'm just being naive and really most husbands and wives from any culture lie to each other all the time- but it does make me wonder how prevalent it is among Filipina ranks???

Chris McG.

[Bruce]

Well, one reason, a big reason that older men stop going out at night is their vision. Driving mecome more difficult at night so they start to cut back on nightly ventures.  

 

As for the social groups and the wives.... I am not a jealous kind of guy. I believe everything you say but if does not apply to me. Working in OB/GYN for years means that any woman I may be involved with is accepting of such or.... not involved with me.

 

I have enought things going on in my life to bother about fidelity of a wife. Not really a concern, but then I am in the minority on this.

 

You will find thought..... especialy in the US,... once a man of your age becomes a widower... especially IF you can drive at night, will command a premium price...... from the women of your age group....  

 

So get your eyes fixed!

[Mike S]

WOW ...... all I gotta say is a lie is a lie and someday it is going to catch up with you and sh*t is gonna hit the fan ...... pure and simple you don't need to tell anyone anything you don't want them to know ..... there is no need to tell them actually how much money you have or make ..... I always told them I would be retiring to the Phils on SS ..... if they asked that is .... as for being married what do you tell them later on when asked why you lied to them about being marred when in fact you weren't ..... remember a relationship built on a lie will bite you in the a*s later on ..... suppose she is really married and tells you she isn't ..... same difference .... di ba ..... I never tell people just what they want to hear .... if asked a question that might hurt someones feelings I'll avoid the question or same something like "do you really want me to answer that" ...... but to just volunteer a lie is just plain bad business ...... IMHO ... for what it is worth .... 

 

As for the Stepford wives in England all I can say about them is they apparently didn't marry their husbands for the right reason and now regret the fact that their husbands are quite older than they are and want to play around a bit ....... if they want to flirt or whatever with Dong maybe they need to come back to the Phils to be with Dong in the province where I'm sure he will have no problem keeping them barefoot and pregnant while he chases after every skirt in town ..... (not stereo typing anyone here as there are lots and lots of good hard working  monogamous Philipino men) ...... but I also know or should say heard from personal Phil family members about what they do ..... both male and female ..... I have to say I'm a little shocked to hear from them that keeping something on the side is not considered wrong in their eyes ...... but whatever floats your boat I guess .... if it were my wife I would tell her I didn't want her attending these so called social gatherings and if she wanted to anyway I would be looking around for someone else ..... because apparently she would rather be with Dong also ...... IMHO ......   :cheersty:   

[brock]

In my eyes, Lying is the same as cheating, I do not like it being done to me, So I never lie or cheat, As Mike says, One day it will come back and bite you in the ass.

[Bruce]

You guys are focusing on lying and not the purpose..... The lying is to make you less attractive to the gold diggers... There is a reason for this. SHY.

 

I do hate the Pinay concept of SHY. It really irritates me. Remember the old saying.... the SHY wheel does not get the grease? It is true.  

 

If you are going to do the internet dating thing, then you, YES YOU SIR will be attacked by the UNshy. Your mail box will be full of friend requests. The UNshy will double their assult when they see that your home city is in the Philippines. Why right this very moment, they are texting their friends and family that they have found Mr. Right! (again)

 

Now, if you are looking for Par-T-ville, well you have found it. No need to lie about anything, you are going to be very busy for the next.... well.... until your money runs out.

 

But.... for those of you who are looking for a relationship not based on sex and the size of.... your wallet.... Then you have an issue. How do you screen and wade through the HUNDREDS of friend requests you get? How do you find... Mrs Right?

 

You lie. Tell them you have TB, I do not care but get rid of the gold diggers... Why? Because of SHY. That is why.

 

OK, now I want you to look at her ID number and your ID number... see the vast numerical difference? That is because she has been a member of that internet dating site since Nixon / Maggie / Some guy in OZ was in power! She has found Mr. Right 32 times before and buddy... YOU are # 33 and she is feeling lucky that THIS TIME is the charm....  

 

Look at their pics... the more the better. Is she showing any leg? In a nightgown or bikini? Sitting on her bed???? These are all hints that YOU will get lucky and soon. But not the signs of Mrs. Right.  

 

So peckerwood, slow down! Screen out the gold diggers and party girls to find that SHY one. The one who does NOT show soft porn pics... the one who can not compete 1 on 1 with the agressive girls, becuase they are too SHY!

 

So a few lies to make you less attractive to the vultures is a good starting place....

 

I am lucky. I have cats..... I did not come to Phils to find Mrs Right so I do not carry that baggage. I am able to see things and point them out because.... I do not have a horse in this race.

[Thomas]

I am talking about lies used perhaps even needed to protect yourself and your assets when entering into a new relationship.

As Mike S said it's BAD to start a relation with lies. Specialy many single moms, who have been cheatened at and left, value men telling truth very high,

prefering a not lying man with money just enough to live ok, without needing to worry about surviving,

before a lying, cheating rich man...

 

It can be SOLVED by telling TRUTHS of types I tell   :no:    e g:

/Nothing before got a close relation, and it will take months before I visit  =Sure scare away at least most gold diggers, they usualy don't have such patience, they go and test someone else instead.

/I aim at building an UGGLY house, not spend money to make it nice (outside).

/Even related have to work to get money. (There are exceptions for very old, disabled or such, but I can wait to tell that "detail". If lucky you are OLDER than your wife's parents, so they can't claim to get support, because of AGE   :dance:

/It's possible to take a loan to make the travel visit, even if not need any loan, because then it's true "I took a loan to go here"  :hystery:

/And they can be scared by saying you are stingy   :)    (I'm not, but I'm economical =No difference for the scammers, but I can be generous to poor nice people, who do their best.) 

 

So telling no lies, but perhaps not telling all   :)    I mean if they don't ask.

You are married 'back home' Even if you are not. Here is why. Being married is a block to an impulse marrige with the new woman.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo. Because big risk that scare away good ones too, and what's the point looking if scaring away the good ones?   :) 

Your are looking to move TO the Philippines and not bring a wife BACK to your home country. This lie also scares off those who will put up with HELL from a man ..... until she gets her papers and then divorces you and starts to 'sponsor' her family to come over to her new country. Which was the plan all along. Alimony and citizenship..... Russian sleeper cell in the making.... Tell them there is no chance of them getting a trip to your country or any citizenship there.

I agree.

But some less hard for me, because it's TRUTH I plan to live in Phili   :dance:    

(I even want to avoid my wife ever to visit Sweden, because better she compare standard with Phili than with Sweden, then I need to work less  :)       But not sure I will succeed with this, and perhaps I will change my mind too, perhaps wanting wife and kids visit my family in Sweden sometimes in the future.)

 

Plus I plan to keep CONTROL of some assets I have by keeping my SWEDISH company,

and perhaps/probably let that Swedish company OWN equipment, which we will USE in Phili company.

A number of older husbands have stopped going out and attending social gatherings- this is happening increasingly among my peer group. What are their much younger, and often still very attractive wives to do? You can't expect them to just sit at home also.

Corect. But it's possible to chose a wife, who LIKE to stay at home  :)    

 

It was like a Filipina Secret Society which all Filipinas are expected to belong to and where one of the most basic rules is to lie to your husband if expedient, or to avoid trouble. To be honest it has made me look more carefully at what is happening in mixed relationships now.      Maybe I'm just being naive and really most husbands and wives from any culture lie to each other all the time- but it does make me wonder how prevalent it is among Filipina ranks???

In general undepending of background and their family traditions?

I suppose it's a huge difference between AVERAGE of a "family girl" and a "bar girl", because for the later it was a part of their work to lie and fake, BUT sure there can be good ones among the "bar girls" too, they can be fed up with the work they had and become good when they find a good husband, BUT don't count on it, because I suppose the odds are much bader to get a good wife among "bar girls" than among "family girls".

Well, one reason, a big reason that older men stop going out at night is their vision. Driving mecome more difficult at night so they start to cut back on nightly ventures.  

Or teach the wife so she can drive when it's dark   :)

I have enought things going on in my life to bother about fidelity of a wife. Not really a concern, but then I am in the minority on this.

Yes, I suppose you are in a small minority.

(I want to be sure if it's mine, if my wife get pregnant. If my have kid with someone else, then it have to be BEFORE we become a couple... My wife better know, if she cheat then I skip her. (At least sure if I get to know from someone else than her, but even if she tell herself, the trust will be much damaged anyway.) 

remember a relationship built on a lie will bite you in the a*s later on

Exactly.

[Bruce]

You guys are over analyzing. You must have a system (if you do the internet dating thing) to filter out the professional boy friend seekers. Camaflouge works well. So camaflouge (lie) youself as a simple poor guy struggling to make ends meet and you can not marry anyone due to the wife back home.

 

The gold diggers will leave you alone to then look for Mrs. Right. After the time is right, then tell the potiental Mrs. Right that your name is not Tom Reid and you are not from Hooterville and that you only said so as to make sure she loved ewe for ewe and not bacause you were partnered with Al Gore when he discoverd the Internet.....

[relcarve25]

The gold diggers will leave you alone to then look for Mrs. Right. After the time is right, then tell the potiental Mrs. Right that your name is not Tom Reid and you are not from Hooterville and that you only said so as to make sure she loved ewe for ewe and not bacause you were partnered with Al Gore when he discoverd the Internet.....

 

I'm not so sure about that! Think of it from your own point of view. Personally speaking if a young woman told me a bunch of lies, which I believed, for whatever reason, and later came up and said- "Oh- don't worry about what I told you. I was lying, but for a good reason.  Now I'm really telling the truth."

Frankly it's going to take a lot for me to believe her now that she has admitted to not telling the truth. I think I would quickly move on. Chris McG.

[Bruce]

OK, let me take a different approach here. In Florida..... I wear a Rolex two tone Submariner (and a Glock 23C). I have never taken that watch to the Philippines, nor any other jewelry.  

 

Why? To lessen the 'target' appearance of myself. To better blend in (yeah right) and not draw too much attention to myself...

 

So, I am basically, in a form so to speak... lying. If I choose to at a later date to disclose my watch costs more than the yearly salary of the average working Pinoy, I may do so. But as of yet, the occasion has not come up.

 

But.... and here is an important thing..... I have been told things about myself from friends here after they searched the internet for me. I have even seen pictures of myself in the US wearing that watch. I have been 'vetted' by the locals here.  

 

You too! Once you start disclosing things about you. So call them white lies, half truths or whatever.... use some common sense in disclosing things about yours self...

 

Do the math..... Add up past dates / girl friends (in your home country or here) that did not work out. What do you get 4, 9, 23?????

 

Well, you are now thinking about doing internet dating and the economy is bad in the Phils (sorry Noynoy) and the internet sites are over flowing with women looking for YOU. You have the potential, depending on money, to 'date' a different woman every night from now to 2027.

 

You do not want to lie??? Ok then shut up and say as little as possible about your finances..... It is for your own good.... :cheersty:

 

Every one happy now? :hystery: