Popular Post relcarve25 Posted May 26, 2013 Popular Post Posted May 26, 2013 Forgive me if this topic has already been covered recently- I simply don't have time to read all the Archives. Most of the posts in the Culture section seem to be about us foreigners scratching our heads, wringing our hands and saying- "WHY DO THEY DO IT?" ('THEY' of course being Filipinos.) Given that it is obvious that our partners and friends in the Philippines do and say many things that we cannot easily comprehend- perhaps we should also accept that Philippine people also find 'US' incomprehensible, irritating or downright offensive at times :bash: because of the way we think and behave. It might benefit all of us to find out a little bit more about how we foreigners 'get up the noses' of Filipinos. :hystery: Let me hastily add here that of course I am only talking 'IN GENERAL.' I'm sure nobody would want to 'slag off' individual or named people in a public forum like this. If you do post please keep it 'non personal.' I'm NOT trying to start this topic to be controversial or confrontational- I would genuinely like to hear more about what Filipinos REALLY think and feel from their foreigner encounters. Filipinos are usually very polite, and try not to offend foreigners openly, however- what goes on in their minds may be a very different thing. :1 (103): As an example, from my observations over the years, I think that many Filipinos find foreigners like me 'makulit' (thinking you are always right about things.) They also think that we are often too argumentative and thus 'rude,' and that we 'complain' too much. What about it, anyone??? Chris McG. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 As an example, from my observations over the years, I think that many Filipinos find foreigners like me 'makulit' (thinking you are always right about things.) They also think that we are often too argumentative and thus 'rude,' and that we 'complain' too much. Well, I do not think you have looked deep enough into the topic of 'us foreigners' being right all the time. Of course no one person nor any group is always right. However, we humans, like other mamals and sub species such as dogs do have common traits. Sadly, while it is quite acceptable to comment on and discuss the differing traits say between a collie (known as a nervous high strung type of dog) as compared to a lab (known as a laid back easy going dog), when the subject comes up about human traits, it is soon followed by the PC talk and then term racist is then misapplied and things go downhill from there. But who cares! In my own dealings in the Philippines, I have found that there is minimal deductive reasoning / problem solving skills. I believe that my opinion is shared by many and is not anything new. The art though comes in as how to get past these traits, get the issue solved and without coming across as a know-it-all or rude. Which is a part of your original post. My own dealings with my recent motorcycle purchase and the mechanical issues that the dealer's staff tried to put off on me as somehow my fault because I do not have enough experience with Philippine motorcycles. Never mind that a motorcycle is a motorcycle and this one was built in India not the Philippines. After multiple trips to the dealer for the same couple of issues, and being told that the mototcycle was designed 'that way' I finally called the man a liar to his face and the proceeded to make a fool of him by showing him he was wrong. Did I make a new friend? I doubt it. But sooner or later, unless you, the foreigner takes control of the situation and makes a command decision, the status quo never changes. I had tried other times to show that I was having a legit issue with the new under warranty motorcycle. Something had to break the stalemate. And I was a lot gentler than I would have been here in the US! So while I can see that I and others like me are thought of as 'rude', the reality is that if you show a dog how to do something, enough times, the dog finally gets it! If you are right, you are right! So rather than accept that the foreigner is right, which then means that someone else (the Pinoy) is wrong, and rather than learn from this and give credit where credit is due, the foreigner is then labled as 'rude'. Using past posts as examples, If you order a Coke Zero and are told 'sorry sir out of stock..... only to see the black cans in the glass door cooler right 'over there'..... whose fault is it that the server can not connect the dots and figure out that those past 1,000 orders for black coke and the word ZERO clearly written on the can means Coke Zero? It is 2013, not 1946..... Get with the program! Learn your stock and better help your customers. So, yes we are foreigners. But we are also business people or retired people that have years of experience in problem solving and deductive reasoning. 'We" would not be where we are today IF 'we' operated at the same level of compentcy as the average Pinoy does. Just how many times in a day or a week are 'we' faced with a simple situation that the average Pinoy has created due to his lack of understanding of how things work or lack of problem solving skills. OR.... OR... OR his willingness to accept and not make any effort to remedy the situation? The Philippines is in the midst of a battle to grow past a 3rd world status, but in order to do so, they must see their own faults and then if they want to compete with 1st world countries, be able to identify and then rude or not, be able to take corrective actions. We laugh at the situations 'they' create such as trying to stop money transfers over 100,000p at election time and then the banter between different governmental departments debating, in the press, that new rule! Until the Philippines as a group and step back and say WHAT? And then fire or retire those responsible for such an idioic rule, the Philippines will never get past the banana republic jokes. If you want to do business on a 1st world level, you need to be able to get things done and fast and done well. Or, when things don't work out.... you can just say that the 1st world countries are just rude! So, while there are some Pinoys who think I am rude....... I also have a very high succes rate in accomplishing what I am setting out to do. Damned if I do and damned if I don't. For those of your career military guys...... Depending on your rank, do you REALLY expect a please and thank you and hand holding and a detailed explanation of each and every damn order you are given? Is the person telling you what to do want to be rude? Or perhaps do they have a bigger picture or higher level of responsibility and a job to get done! (Remember the dog.... he FINALLY gets it) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i am bob Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 Because of my interest in living in the Philippines (ok, my burning desire that can only be cured by moving there!), I often speak to any Filipino I run across here in Canada. Many admit that it was a shock to their system upon moving here... Apparently we are very strange people in our habits and many say that it has taken them a few years to get used to our ways. Many of the things we do make no sense what-so-ever to them. Toilet paper? One told me that he always felt dirty after... Stick frame (2x4 lumber) houses? Are they really safe? Couch potatoes? How do we ever make friends? And so many more! Yes, folk, it's a 2 way street! So, for those in the Land of Heaven? Remember - you are a guest! And, from the number of stories I hear about rude Kano's in the Philippines compared to rude Filipino stories here, I think we Kano's are losing! :tiphat: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacBubba Posted May 26, 2013 Posted May 26, 2013 In my own dealings in the Philippines, I have found that there is minimal deductive reasoning / problem solving skills. I believe that my opinion is shared by many and is not anything new. The art though comes in as how to get past these traits, get the issue solved and without coming across as a know-it-all or rude. Although I have seen similar statements in various posts, I may have to wait until we've moved to the Philippines before I can say that I share that view. I have no doubt that there is basis for that opinion though, as I have heard Filipinos say that about other Filipinos. However, in my dealings with Filipinos in Manila and in Toronto, I have always respected their ability to solve problems and show ingenuity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Old55 Posted May 27, 2013 Forum Support Posted May 27, 2013 In my own dealings in the Philippines, I have found that there is minimal deductive reasoning / problem solving skills. I believe that my opinion is shared by many and is not anything new. The art though comes in as how to get past these traits, get the issue solved and without coming across as a know-it-all or rude. Although I have seen similar statements in various posts, I may have to wait until we've moved to the Philippines before I can say that I share that view. I have no doubt that there is basis for that opinion though, as I have heard Filipinos say that about other Filipinos. However, in my dealings with Filipinos in Manila and in Toronto, I have always respected their ability to solve problems and show ingenuity. I agree with you. From what I have seen over the years Filipinos for the most part are very ingenuous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jon1 Posted May 27, 2013 Popular Post Posted May 27, 2013 It's not just us that see this. A couple examples; I am having a few beers with a Pinoy friend and his sister (visiting from the states joins us). She has been living in the US for 15 years now after marrying a US Soldier. She went on a huge rant about how things here are so screwed up. She called it "the land of no sense"! Couldn't top that one. Another one, I was on a ride thru the Batangas countryside with a couple of Pinoy. We stop on the side of the road that is lined with mango trees for a smoke. I asked one of my fellow riders, "I wonder what those people living in that nipa hut must think about guys like us on bikes worth more than their property?". The Pinoy (who has worked overseas and now has a successful local business) says "F*** them! If they wanted it, they could get it, they just have to WORK for it. They are perfectly happy to do as little as possible and just get by!" When trying to get important things done (construction, electrical, mechanical), I tend to gravitate towards Pinoy that have worked overseas (OFW) and/or successful. If you think about it, it's no different than the people we were friends with back home (similar experiences/expectations). Also, the Philippines Brain Drain (OFW) adversely affects the remaining population in country. All the ones with sense and drive go to where the work is. The ones left behind are perfectly happy to suck off of the OFWs hard earned $ and do as little as possible. One of the biggest things that I see about most Kanos here is a lack of patience. They expect things to get done ASAP and correct 1st try. If you set your expectations low, then when you get surprised it's a gift. Don't get me wrong, I still get frustrated from time to time. But if you are expecting the wrong answer/poor service how can you be disappointed? I have learned the places that I will patronize (based on quality, quality of service) and try new places from time to time. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i am bob Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 The Golden Horseshoe (Toronto and around the end of Lake Ontario to Niagara) is becoming quite a destination for Filipinos. Of the many that I have met and talked to, I would say that they are probably a little quicker on the ingenuity than most. Sure some need to kick the can twice but it seems that they are few while a good number of the locals here need four or five kicks just to keep up! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i am bob Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 It's not just us that see this. A couple examples; I am having a few beers with a Pinoy friend and his sister (visiting from the states joins us). She has been living in the US for 15 years now after marrying a US Soldier. She went on a huge rant about how things here are so screwed up. She called it "the land of no sense"! Couldn't top that one. Another one, I was on a ride thru the Batangas countryside with a couple of Pinoy. We stop on the side of the road that is lined with mango trees for a smoke. I asked one of my fellow riders, "I wonder what those people living in that nipa hut must think about guys like us on bikes worth more than their property?". The Pinoy (who has worked overseas and now has a successful local business) says "F*** them! If they wanted it, they could get it, they just have to WORK for it. They are perfectly happy to do as little as possible and just get by!" When trying to get important things done (construction, electrical, mechanical), I tend to gravitate towards Pinoy that have worked overseas (OFW) and/or successful. If you think about it, it's no different than the people we were friends with back home (similar experiences/expectations). Also, the Philippines Brain Drain (OFW) adversely affects the remaining population in country. All the ones with sense and drive go to where the work is. The ones left behind are perfectly happy to suck off of the OFWs hard earned $ and do as little as possible. One of the biggest things that I see about most Kanos here is a lack of patience. They expect things to get done ASAP and correct 1st try. If you set your expectations low, then when you get surprised it's a gift. Don't get me wrong, I still get frustrated from time to time. But if you are expecting the wrong answer/poor service how can you be disappointed? I have learned the places that I will patronize (based on quality, quality of service) and try new places from time to time. I agree with many of the things you said. I have also heard the same things being said about people in my own country. the US, Australia, Taiwan, and so on. The one big thing I disagree with you on (and I think it may have just been phrasing rather than what you truly feel) was when you said "The ones left behind are perfectly happy to suck off of the OFWs hard earned $ and do as little as possible." Some do but I think the majority still work hard for a living doing what they can to feed their families - same as everybody else in this world. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jon1 Posted May 27, 2013 Popular Post Posted May 27, 2013 It's not just us that see this. A couple examples; I am having a few beers with a Pinoy friend and his sister (visiting from the states joins us). She has been living in the US for 15 years now after marrying a US Soldier. She went on a huge rant about how things here are so screwed up. She called it "the land of no sense"! Couldn't top that one. Another one, I was on a ride thru the Batangas countryside with a couple of Pinoy. We stop on the side of the road that is lined with mango trees for a smoke. I asked one of my fellow riders, "I wonder what those people living in that nipa hut must think about guys like us on bikes worth more than their property?". The Pinoy (who has worked overseas and now has a successful local business) says "F*** them! If they wanted it, they could get it, they just have to WORK for it. They are perfectly happy to do as little as possible and just get by!" When trying to get important things done (construction, electrical, mechanical), I tend to gravitate towards Pinoy that have worked overseas (OFW) and/or successful. If you think about it, it's no different than the people we were friends with back home (similar experiences/expectations). Also, the Philippines Brain Drain (OFW) adversely affects the remaining population in country. All the ones with sense and drive go to where the work is. The ones left behind are perfectly happy to suck off of the OFWs hard earned $ and do as little as possible. One of the biggest things that I see about most Kanos here is a lack of patience. They expect things to get done ASAP and correct 1st try. If you set your expectations low, then when you get surprised it's a gift. Don't get me wrong, I still get frustrated from time to time. But if you are expecting the wrong answer/poor service how can you be disappointed? I have learned the places that I will patronize (based on quality, quality of service) and try new places from time to time. I agree with many of the things you said. I have also heard the same things being said about people in my own country. the US, Australia, Taiwan, and so on. The one big thing I disagree with you on (and I think it may have just been phrasing rather than what you truly feel) was when you said "The ones left behind are perfectly happy to suck off of the OFWs hard earned $ and do as little as possible." Some do but I think the majority still work hard for a living doing what they can to feed their families - same as everybody else in this world. Maybe I should rephrase that. If the family has OFWs working, they tend to gravitate that way... There are hard workers here for sure. Some work harder than needed and get nowhere, others work harder and are successful... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hounddriver Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Filipinos are usually very polite, and try not to offend foreigners openly I don't notice Filipinos being any more or less polite than Canadians where I am from. I see them trying not to offend visitors to their country openly in the same way Canadians try not to offend visitors openly (even Americans Hee Hee). I see filipinos joking with each other when the visitor is out of hearing and now that I have been here a long time I even get included in the joke (told to me by the ones who speak English). The point of all this is I see no difference between filipinos and Canadians in this matter. Some of the things the local filipinos talk to me about are: Foreigners who loudly and openly 'go after' some young girl who is then embarrassed by all the public attention. (They talk about how the foreigner should learn some of the local customs about being discrete in such things.) Foreigners who complain because some goods or services are not available to them here. (They talk about this being Philippines and the foreigner should realize this is how things are here.) Foreigners who assume some filipino would be happy to wash their car for 50 pesos, (They talk about foreigners learning the social structure of the country and that guy is a mason not a car wash guy and he would rather be an unemployed mason who is between jobs than an employed car washer.) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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