Chiefs And Staff Non Commission Officers

[Papa Carl]

 

The more of these threads I read, its weird, I start having cravings for some good Pilipino food, especially now.  

Now that you got your feet wet with a fine introduction and gained confidence that most members of this fine forum

are just as crazy and happy......as you are.  Go out and venture to other topics or more than likely, you will provide

some interesting openers as well. 

 

We should start a chief's mess -- Jake

 

 

Jake, my father retired as a Chief Warrant Officer in the Canadian military. Having turned down several promotions, as he kept telling me, at his age it was better to finish off his career "being a big fish in a small pond, rather than a small fish in a big pond". He felt that being a Lieutenant, Captain, or Major etc. when retired may have given him a better pension, but that he would likely have ended up leaving his chosen career earlier as he would not have liked the change in his respect from and for "fellow officers".

 

Plus I must admit, being in charge of the Sergeants Mess always had it's benefits!

 

Sooooo, does the son of a Chief, gain access to such a illustrious club?

 

Papa Carl

[Jake]

Hey Papa Carl,

 

I had to research military rank equivalent throughout allied forces.  I believe your father was the top dog of the enlisted rank.  

He was the head MoFo, even the young officers can easily be intimidated by the presence of a Chief Warrant Officer.  It is

similar to Command Sergeant Major in US Army, Air Force and Marine Corps.  In the US Navy, it would be called Command

Master Chief (surface) or Chief of the Boat (subs).  I finally retired as command master chief but as a civilian, you can just

address me as Master Bater.....he, he.

 

In order to join this sacred band of brothers, you must go through a chief's initiation.  It is a grueling verbal and physical 

abuse for the new chief.  I'm sure BrettBC (Senior Chief, Royal Australian Navy) can elaborate more on their own initiation.  

But once you pass the ordeal, you become Brothers in Crime.  We're more like industrious club because we lie, cheat and 

steal anything to get the job done, in spite of the navy way of packing 2 lbs of chit into a one pound paper bag.

 

Survivor of military chicken chit -- Jake

Edited October 13, 2013 by Jake
spill chek

[Papa Carl]

Hi Jake,

 

Sounds right down my alley, just my kind of mates! May I suggest the first meeting to take place here in Angeles, as I have a few places in mind, that I have shown a few of the members before that I am sure will be satisfactory to all members. No guarantee that you will make it back to quarters for a few days, but you will be taken care of along the way!.

 

My Dad, was an Army man all his life, while in the Canadian Armed Forces, he generally was the Regimental Sergeant Major, and on his last posting was the Command Chief Warrant Officer, and I can attest to the fact that it was not only Lieutenants and Captains who stiffened their stance when my father would bark, but a few Majors and Brigadier Generals who would often be seen leaving the area at a quick march!

 

He transferred to the Canadian Armed Forces after the war, and before that was a member of the (what is now called the Household Cavalry), but at the time was the Life Guards in Britain. During the war he fought in Africa and the Middle East under Montgomery. Before the war he was stationed in India.

 

I spent my entire youth travelling around the world, always learning never to get to close, or letting anyone else get to close, as I don't believe we spent more than 2 years in any one place, so I knew before hand that I would only know them for a short time.

 

 

My upbringing might have been strict, and possibly over done, but I guess it helped me to be who I now am, and although did not keep me out of trouble, has shaped my life and at least taught me to have respect for those in the Armed Forces of all countries. November the 11th still to this day is a special day in my calender, we call it Remembrance Day in the Commonwealth, I believe is Veterans or Memorial Day to others.

 

The knowledge that my father had intended for me to attend Gordon Boys Military School, and then on to Kneller Hall to follow in his footsteps, led me to run away from home at the early age of 15, although this was successful at preventing me from being shipped to England for my education, it did not prevent the police from being my home!

 

I remember that army web belt very well, with the regimental buckle!

 

 

Papa Carl

[NavyRN]

Once a Chief, always a Chief!

[BrettGC]

I was offered a commission numerous times during my career and always turned it down.  Conversation often went something like this:

 

CO:  "Chief, I've been instructed to suggest that you submit your application for a commission, you will be granted the rank of Lieutenant with full seniority (army captain equivalent)."

Me:  "So sir, you've been instructed to do so.  So you don't support the idea?"

CO:  "Stop being contrary Chief, you know I do."

Me:  "Yes sir, if you think back, we've had this conversation a number of times - Interesting new tack though."

CO: "This is not a tack Chief."

Me: "...."

CO: "sigh"

Me: "I have work to do sir"

 

Many officers around the world have often commented on a SNCO's ability to convey the non-verbal "dot dot dot" facial expression. It may be taken by the officer on the receiving end in a number of ways, depending on the context and Include:

 

"You're not a fool, I'm not a fool, so stop behaving and treating me like one"

"Previous evidence suggests you're not a fool but the jury is about to have a second vote if you continue in this vein"

"Previous evidence suggests you are a fool, but the jury is out, lets not do anything further to encourage a guilty verdict"

"You you are a fool, delusions of adequacy will only get you so far and I will be giving evidence against you at your court-martial"

 

Now, all this seems highly insubordinate, but the experienced Chief is fully aware of the nuances of delivery with regards to individual targets of said "...." so can aim the look with a pin-point accuracy and subtlety that plants a thought in the the officers head, that encourages him to think about his actions.  On occasion, for the simpler life-forms dwelling in the officer's mess, the more direct approach is entirely appropriate and indeed required, but it's all on a case-by-case basis.  It may take the form of a quick, tiny raising of the eyebrow right through to a slight frown or a combination of both.

 

For info Jake, I was actually on exchange posting to the USN when I was promoted to the dizzy heights so went through the USN version of initiation when I was given my new hat.  We, sadly in Australia, don't have a similar tradition, it was banned years ago as bast---isation, long before my time. 

 

Just remembered this gem from a book I read recently, even though it's set in WWII I think all will agree it still holds true:

 

“Sir! There is no excuse, sir!”

The major and the colonel nod approvingly at each other.

This “sir, yes sir” business, which would probably sound like horsesh&t to any civilian in his right mind, makes sense to Shaftoe and to the officers in a deep and important way. Like a lot of others, Shaftoe had trouble with military etiquette at first. He soaked up quite a bit of it growing up in a military family, but living the life was a different matter. Having now experienced all the phases of military existence except for the terminal ones (violent death, court-martial, retirement), he has come to understand the culture for what it is: A system of etiquette within which it becomes possible for groups of men to live together for years, travel to the ends of the earth, and do all kinds of incredibly weird sh&t without killing each other or completely losing their minds in the process. The extreme formality with which he addresses these officers carries an important subtext: Your problem, sir, is deciding what you want me to do, and my problem, sir, is doing it. My gung-ho posture says that once you give the order I’m not going to bother you with any of the details – and your half of the bargain is you had better stay on your side of the line, sir, and not bother me with any of the chickensh&t politics that you have to deal with for a living. The implied responsibility placed upon the officer’s shoulders by the subordinate’s unhesitating willingness to follow orders is a withering burden to any officer with half a brain, and Shaftoe has more than once seen seasoned non-coms reduce green lieutenants to quivering blobs simply by standing before them and agreeing, cheerfully, to carry out their orders.

 

Sergeant Bobby Shaftoe

Crytponomicon – Neal Stephenson

Edited October 25, 2013 by BrettGC

[Dougbert]

One of my favorite books and authors!

[BrettGC]

I vote Jake for President of the Mess, as I believe, it will quite literally end up a mess!  AC?  I can see the conversation now with SAO (Short Angry One).

 

"Honey, I'm going up to AC to get together with a bunch of ex-military types to build orphanages and help with the local meals on wheels program.  Do you mind? Oh yeah, they've shut down all the bars, outlawed prostitution, adopted prohibition and are adopting Sharia law the day before we arrive in Pampagna so how much trouble could we get into?"

 

"...."

 

End of conversation.

Edited October 26, 2013 by BrettGC

[Tukaram (Tim)]

You can really tell a lot about the military by who they send in to battle. 

In the US the Army sends their enlisted men.

The Air Force sends their officers.

The Navy sends the Marines!

 

(I like the Navy way)   :tiphat:

[Jake]

This is another example of doing it the Navy way with naval officers demonstrating their wisdom and leadership:

 

 

On the other hand, us chiefs will complain about it.  These fighter jets during their drying cycle should be hung

nose up instead -- it will facilitate better drainage out the exhaust......he, he. 

 

 

[i am bob]

(Oh, I am so gonna get into deep shiza for this one...) It'd funny that the Navy has so much trouble figuring out what something is used for...! Us Air Force guys know the difference between a submarine and a lawn dart!

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