Plane Crash

[brock]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-boeing-jet-carrying-295-people-crashes-in-ukraine-9612882.html

[Medic Mike]

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash: 'Nine Britons, 23 US citizens and 80 children' feared dead after Boeing passenger jet 'shot down' near Ukraine-Russia border

 

 

 

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The airliner was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur

Kashmira Gander

 

Thursday 17 July 2014

 

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Nine Britons, 23 US citizens and 80 children are reported to be among those killed when a passenger jet crashed over the eastern Ukraine border amid claim and counter-claim that it was shot down.

 

Pictures and video emerging from the scene show bodies strewn around the site of the crash amid charred and burning wreckage of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 near the town of Grabovo, about 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

The Malaysian national carrier said that the British passport holders were travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on board the Boeing 777. The aircraft is believed to have had 295 people on board – 280 passengers and 15 crew.

A spokesman from The Foreign and Commonwealth Office said it was working to identify any British victims of the tragedy. “We are aware of the reports and are urgently working to establish what has happened," he said.

The Ukrainian Interior Minister is reported to have said that 23 US citizens and 80 children were also on board, according to various agencies reporting from the scene.

Ukrainian rebels, who are backed by Russia, and the Ukraine government have accused the other of carrying out the ground-to-air strike, with both issuing firm denials of any involvement in the disaster.

A man works at putting out a fire at the site of the plane crash The Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko rejected claims by Ukraine rebels that Kiev was responsible and said his country's armed forces didn't shoot at any airborne targets.

“We do not exclude that this plane was shot down, and we stress that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not take action against any airborne targets,” he said. “We are sure that those who are guilty in this tragedy will be held responsible.”

According to the Telegraph, an official statement from the Ukraine government blamed Russian air defence systems it claimed are protecting "terrorists" in the area.

It said: "A large passenger aircraft Boeing 777, performing a flight between Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpur, was shot down in the eastern part of Ukraine. According to the General Staff of Ukrainian Armed Forces, the airplane was shot down by the Russian Buk missile system as the liner was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters.

 

"Ukraine has no long-range air defence missile systems in this area.

"The plane was shot down, because the Russian air defence systems was affording protection to Russian mercenaries and terrorists in this area.

"Ukraine will present the evidence of Russian military involvement into the Boeing crash.

"The leader of the terrorists Igor Girkin (Strelkov) immediately commented on the airplane catastrophe, believing that it was the Ukrainian jet that crashed down: 'In Torez An-26 was shot down, its crashes are lying somewhere near the coal mine “Progress”. We have warned everyone: do not fly in our skies.'"

Anton Gerashenko, an aide to the Ukrainian Interior Minister, wrote on his Facebook page that the Boeing airliner, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was at an altitude of 33,000ft when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher and crashed near the city of Donetsk - a stronghold of pro-Russian rebels.

Earlier, Aleksandr Boroday, Prime Minister of Donetsk People's Republic, denied the jet had been shot down by the rebels, who are backed by Russia, and called the incident a “provocation by the Ukrainian military”.

“We confirm that the plane crashed not far from Donetsk,” Boroday said. “Representatives of Donetsk People's Republic have headed to the scene of the plane search.”

Emergencies Ministry members work at the site of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane crash in the settlement of Grabovo in the Donetsk region “Self-defence forces have no air-defence, which could target transport aircraft at that height,” he told Interfax.

In separate reports by Interfax, an unidentified pro-Russian separatists said they have found the jet's black box flight recorder.

Russia’s military has also said that none of its military planes have been flying close to the Russia-Ukraine border on Thursday, RIA Novosti reported citing a military official.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 takes off from Schiphol airport near Amsterdam The US senator John McCain has warned that there will be “hell to pay” if the Russia military or Ukrainian separatists are deemed to have had any involvement in the 'incident'.

He said: “If the Malaysian plane was shot down, this is obviously a game changer and has horrific consequences."

“It has the earmarks of a tragic mistake made by someone who had the capability to just shoot down an aircraft, and we know at least from the last couple of weeks that that could be Russian or separatist Russian capability.”

"But if it is the result of either separatist or Russian actions mistakenly believing this was a Ukrainian war plane, I think there’s going to be hell to pay and there should be," he said in an interview on MSNBC, citing previous reports of separatists shooting down Ukrainian fighter planes.

The aircraft involved is understood to be a Boeing 777 with flight number MH17, which departed from Amsterdam at 12.14am local time, 15 minutes later than scheduled, according to flight records.

It was expected to arrive in Malaysia at 6:10am local time, but did not enter Russian airspace when it was expected to, a Russian aviation source told Reuters.

The Interfax report said the plane came down 50 km (20 miles) short of entering Russian airspace. It "began to drop, afterwards it was found burning on the ground on Ukrainian territory," the unnamed source said.

Malaysia Airlines crash: What we do and don't know so far

The Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has ordered an investigation into what he has called an "airplane catastrophe", his spokeswoman Olga Lappo said on Thursday.

His comments were followed by a tweet by Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak, who said he was "shocked" by reports of a plane crash, and that an investigation was being launched into the incident immediately.

 

 

This video posted online purported to show the aftermath of the crash

 

A separate unnamed source in the Ukrainian security apparatus, quoted by Interfax, said the plane disappeared from radar at a height of 10,000 metres after which it came down near the town of Shakhtyorsk.

Malaysia Airlines posted a tweet on its official account confirming it had "lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam".

"The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace. More details to follow."

Virgin Airlines, Lufthansa and British Airways have confirmed that they are diverting most of their flights away from Ukrianian airspace.

A spokesman from BA said: “The safety and security of our customers is always our top priority. Our flights are not using Ukrainian airspace, with the exception of our once a day service between Heathrow and Kiev.

“We are keeping those services under review, but Kiev is several hundred kilometres from the incident site."

 

[Gerald Glatt]

FROM RUSSIA,  WITH NOT SO MUCH LOVE.

[Medic Mike]

So many children on the flight, very sad.

[Jake]

Normally the launching of surface to air missiles is typically shoot-shoot -- look, then shoot again (if necessary).

That was our doctrine against incoming vampires (missiles or platform) is to shoot twice.  

 

That air space above Ukraine was considered hostile and I'm curious if Malaysian heeded that warning.  I also

believe that airline was visually ID'd by a trailing military jet and left the air space immediately.  

 

The start of finger pointing is well underway now......the killing of innocent victims on both side will get worse

before it gets any better, I'm sorry to say.   

[stevewool]

conflicts, war what ever you call it, it drags others into the pot, when will it end and to me it will only get worst,

[Medic Mike]

Normally the launching of surface to air missiles is typically shoot-shoot -- look, then shoot again (if necessary).

That was our doctrine against incoming vampires (missiles or platform) is to shoot twice.  

 

That air space above Ukraine was considered hostile and I'm curious if Malaysian heeded that warning.  I also

believe that airline was visually ID'd by a trailing military jet and left the air space immediately.  

 

The start of finger pointing is well underway now......the killing of innocent victims on both side will get worse

before it gets any better, I'm sorry to say.   

They are reporting in Australia that MH17 took that flight path to save money on fuel.

[Methersgate]

It's a recognised and accepted route; many airlines fly it.

Putin should not have equipped his toughs with such a weapon.
 

"The moral is that little boys

Should not be given dangerous toys"

 

(Hilaire Belloc; Cautionary Tales)

[Medic Mike]

MANILA -- The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said on Friday that three Filipinos -- a mother, her son, and daughter -- were among the 298 passengers on board the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 that was shot down in Ukraine on Thursday.

The DFA identified the Filipino victims as Irene Gunawan, 54; Sherryl Shania Gunawan, 20; and Darryl Dwight Gunawan, 15.

DFA spokesman Charles Jose revealed that the residential address the Gunawans indicated in their passport application was in the Netherlands

[Medic Mike]

Missile took down Malaysia plane; 3 Filipinos among passengers

By AP

11:43 am | Friday, July 18th, 2014 0 2 0

HRABOVE, Ukraine—A Malaysia Airlines passenger plane carrying 298 people was shot down over eastern Ukraine on Thursday, Ukrainian officials said, and both the government and the pro-Russia separatists fighting in the region denied any responsibility for downing the aircraft.

An official from the carrier said passengers included 154 Dutch nationals.

“There were 283 passengers and 15 crew members on board the plane,” Malaysian Airlines vice president Huib Gorter told reporters at a press conference at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport from where the doomed flight had taken off.

He gave a preliminary breakdown of the passenger’s nationalities, saying: “154 were Dutch, 27 were Australian.”

In addition, 23 others were from Malaysia, 11 were Indonesian, six were British, four were German, another four were from Belgium, three were from the Philippines and one was Canadian.

Around 50 passengers remained unidentified, Gorter said

As plumes of black smoke rose up near a rebel-held village of Hrabove, an Associated Press journalist counted at least 22 bodies at the wreckage site 40 kilometers (25 miles) from the Russian border.

The village is under the control of pro-Russia separatists and the area has seen severe fighting between the two sides in recent days. A Russian news report said pro-Russia rebels intend to call a three-day cease-fire to allow for an investigation into the crash and recovery efforts.

The Boeing 777-200ER plane, traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, appeared to have broken up before impact and the burning wreckage—which included body parts and the belongings of passengers—was scattered over a wide area.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called the downing an act of terrorism and called for an international investigation into the crash. He insisted that his forces did not shoot down the plane.

Ukraine’s security services produced what they said were two intercepted telephone conversations that they said showed rebels were responsible. In the first call, the security services said, rebel commander Igor Bezler tells a Russian military intelligence officer that rebel forces shot down a plane.

In the second, two rebel fighters—one of them at the scene of the crash—say the rocket attack was carried out by a unit of insurgents about 25 kilometers (15 miles) north of the crash site.

Neither recording could be independently verified.

President Barack Obama called the crash a “terrible tragedy” and talked about it on the phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Britain has asked for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council on Ukraine. Britain’s UN Mission said Thursday the time of the meeting has not been set.

Short truce

The RIA-Novosti agency on Thursday quoted rebel leader Alexander Borodai as saying discussions were underway with Ukrainian authorities on calling a short truce for humanitarian reasons. He said international organizations would be allowed into the conflict-plagued region.

Aviation authorities in several countries, including the FAA in the United States, had issued warnings not to fly over parts of Ukraine prior to Thursday’s crash. Within hours, several airlines, including Lufthansa, Delta and KLM, released statements Thursday saying they were avoiding parts of Ukrainian airspace.

Malaysia Airlines said Ukrainian aviation authorities told the company they had lost contact with Flight MH17 at 1415 GMT (10 a.m. EDT) about 30 kilometers (20 miles) from Tamak waypoint, which is 50 kilometers (30 miles) from the Russia-Ukraine border.

It said the plane was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew members. It had left Amsterdam at 12:15 p.m. and was due to arrive at Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 6:10 a.m. Friday.

Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said on his Facebook page the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters (33,000 feet) when it was hit by a missile from a Buk launcher, which can fire up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet). Ukraine’s government didn’t say how it knew those details.

Igor Sutyagin, a research fellow in Russian studies at the Royal United Services Institute, said both Ukrainian and Russian forces have SA-17 missile systems—also known as Buk ground-to-air launcher systems.

He said Russia had supplied separatist rebels with military hardware, but he had seen no evidence “of the transfer of that type of system from Russia.” The weapons that the rebels are known to have do not have the capacity to reach beyond 4,500 meters. (14,750 feet)

A launcher similar to the Buk missile system was seen by Associated Press journalists earlier Thursday near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne, which is held by the rebels.

The Malaysia Airlines plane was delivered to the company on July 30, 1997, according to Flightglobal’s Ascend Online Fleets. It has more than 43,000 hours of flight time and 6,950 takeoffs and landings.

Poroshenko said his country’s armed forces didn’t shoot at any airborne targets.

“We do not exclude that this plane was shot down, and we stress that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not take action against any airborne targets,” he said. “We are sure that those who are guilty in this tragedy will be held responsible.”

The Kremlin said Putin “informed the US president of the report from air traffic controllers that the Malaysian plane had crashed on Ukrainian territory” without giving further details about their call. The White House confirmed the call.

Rebel leader’s claim

Separatist leader Andrei Purgin told The Associated Press that he was certain that Ukrainian troops had shot the plane down, but gave no explanation or proof for his statement.

Purgin said he did not know whether rebel forces owned Buk missile launchers, but said even if they did, they had no fighters capable of operating it.

Around the time the plane crashed, Russian media quoted witnesses as saying they saw a plane being hit by what they thought was a rocket.

It was the second time that a Malaysia Airlines plane was lost in less than six months. Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared in March while en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. It has not been found, but the search has been concentrated in the Indian Ocean far west of Australia.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, who had been attending a European Union summit in Brussels, headed back to the Netherlands to deal with fallout from the crash.

In Kuala Lumpur, several relatives of those onboard the Malaysian airliner came to the international airport.

A distraught Akmar Mohamad Noor, 67, said her older sister was coming visit the family in Kuala Lumpur for the first time in five years to celebrate Eid.

“She was coming back from Geneva to celebrate (Eid) with us for the first time in 30 years,” Akmar said in between sobs. “She called me just before she boarded the plane and said ‘see you soon,’” Akmar said.

There have been several disputes over planes being shot down over eastern Ukraine in recent days.

On Wednesday evening, a Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane, Ukrainian authorities said Thursday, adding to what Kiev says is mounting evidence that Moscow is directly supporting the separatist insurgents. Ukraine Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said the pilot of the Sukhoi-25 jet hit by the air-to-air missile was forced to bail after his jet was shot down.

Russia’s UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin told reporters at UN headquarters in New York on Thursday that Russia did not shoot down the Ukrainian fighter jet on Wednesday. “We didn’t do it,” Churkin said.

Strikes on 2 Ukrainian jets

Pro-Russia rebels, meanwhile, claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 jets.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but added the pilot was unscathed and managed to land his plane safely

Moscow denies Western charges that is supporting the separatists or sowing unrest in its neighbor.

Earlier this week, Ukraine said a military transport plane was shot down Monday over eastern Ukraine by a missile fired from Russian territory.

Many airlines had continued to use the route despite warnings not to because of the fighting, said Norman Shanks, former head of group security at airports group BAA and professor of aviation security at Coventry University in England.

“It is a busy aviation route and there have been suggestions that a notice was given to aviators telling airlines to avoid that particular area,” Shanks said.

“But Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, have been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money.”

Flights that were airborne when the Malaysia Airlines jet crashed have been re-routed, transportation officials said.

Other passenger planes have been shot down before including:

— April 20, 1978: Korean Airlines Flight 902, which diverted from its planned course on a flight from Paris to Seoul and strayed over the Soviet Union. After being fired upon by an interceptor aircraft, the crew made a forced landing at night on the surface of a frozen lake. Two of the 97 passengers were killed by the hostile fire.

— Sept. 1, 1983: Korean Air Lines Flight 007 shot down by at least one Soviet air-to-air missile after the 747 had strayed into Soviet airspace. All 240 passengers and 29 crew were killed.

— July 3, 1988: Iran Air Flight 655 Aircraft was shot down by a surface-to-air missile from the American naval vessel USS Vincennes. All 16 crew and 274 passengers were killed.–Peter Leonard with Scott Mayerowitz in New York; Jill Lawless and Matthew Knight in London; Laura Mills and Jim Heintz in Moscow; Darlene Superville in Washington; Mike Corder in The Hague, Netherlands; and Eileen Ng and Satish Cheney in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia