Face, What Is It?

[i am bob]

To me it just seems like the public image each person wants to maintain.  They love to appear saintly, god fearing, and compassionate.  And when you point something out that proves how false that mask is - they lose face, and you are the bad guy.

 

I don't see any real purpose to it except to try and maintain a false veneer if piety.

 

That is why when you have a problem with someone it is better to go through a 3rd party instead of a direct confrontation.  Somehow that goes down easier... but to many of us Westerners it is just airing our dirty laundry to others.  We generally prefer a more direct (and private) approach.    :tiphat:

 

I once asked a Master at the Dao temple if he could explain to me the principles of face so I could understand better.  He replied (through a university professor who was translating parts for him) almost verbatim Tim's 2 statements - a mask or a false veneer of piety.  Nicely done Tim!

 

(And, for those who argue if the Dao is a religion or philosophy, the correct answer is - it just is!  hehe!)

[Americano]

 

Given the fact that so many are born into a society that offers so little (and what little is offered is never a square deal), it's good to know many have a pleasant attitude and good humor (there's sometimes nothing like hearing "Good morning sir-how are you" as you go out to buy that morning pandesol) with a smile and a little small talk. It's putting the stresses of what they can't control aside (deflecting) and trying to find ways to look at the bright side of their lives-an atmosphere I truly enjoy at times. So staying away from and debating the darker side of their struggling lives sometimes can be well advised (as I learn here). As Steve summed it up, they know it-they know it-they don't need us there to remind them.

That's it!

Let's take somewhere we all know - Metro Manila. Of its population of - what - 12 million people (11,855,975 in the 2010 Census) - how many wake up each day feeling that they can control what will happen to them that day? Only a very few of them can wake up with the pleasant thought that they are in some sense "in control". How many of them can reasonably hope for a better future? Again, very few.

Now, why does the population of Metro Manila keep growing? Because people move to Manila from the provinces. They do that because life is better in Manila than it is in the provinces!

 

Its difficult to argue that Manila is a beautiful city. It isn't. It is polluted, dirty, noisy, short on trees and grass and when it rains it floods. Most of it is two storeys high. Much of it is "informal architecture" - squatter tenements. 

 

Is it helpful to remind people of how miserable they are?

 

No, it is better to think cheerful thoughts!

 

Better to think of the Love of God, of the Saints interceding for us, of the many, many possibilities of magic, of the wonderful redemptive qualities of human love...of the chance that Luck is on Our Side, and to daydream that the jueteng ticket will win....   

 

 

"Now, why does the population of Metro Manila keep growing? Because people move to Manila from the provinces. They do that because life is better in Manila than it is in the provinces!"  I know some people from Mindanao and a few from Cebu who moved to Manila. All of them moved there for work. None of them moved there because they thought they would have a better life. Moving to Manila to work is similar to an OFW going to another country to work while leaving his family behind. Its only done for the money to support his family.  Some are women who are supporting their brothers and sisters.

[MacBubba]

Can anyone detail good that comes from face? Some of the last posts aluded to some I think.

 

I don't know what the success rate is these days, but it used to serve as a deterrent.  Upstanding families would want to preserve their honor and would remind their kids not to run afoul of the law or have children out of wedlock as those would besmirch the family name.

 

Clearly there are those who will take advice to heart, and there are those who won't.

[Thomas]

 

Can anyone detail good that comes from face? Some of the last posts aluded to some I think.

 

I don't know what the success rate is these days, but it used to serve as a deterrent.  Upstanding families would want to preserve their honor and would remind their kids not to run afoul of the law or have children out of wedlock as those would besmirch the family name.

 

Clearly there are those who will take advice to heart, and there are those who won't.

Yes. It's good when the "Lose face" is used to act good, AVOID doing bad   :)

 

I have noticed a HUGE difference between families in WORK ATTITUDE.

/Some families are lazy, FEW family members have work

/while in some other families, ALL grown ups have work, although they had even LESS to start with...

 

(Btw - is it "Lose face" if start working HARD in a LAZY family?   :mocking:

[Dave Hounddriver]

 

My wife is always talking about how corrupt and f..ed up her country is

 

Many Americans I know speak the same way of their home country.  Its just talk.  Some Americans say its their first amendment right and they are expected to speak up when something is wrong.  So my question is:  Why is it the right thing for Americans to do but when filipinas do it that means:

 

 

Their country is screwed up beyond repair.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Dave Hounddriver

[Methersgate]

A lesson that I have learned at personal cost - it almost broke up my relationship with a woman whom I love dearly - is that, the less you actually have, the more important your pride in what you do have becomes. See my thread on "poverty and what we don't think about".

The Philippines does not have a long history of military success and industrial innovation; what the Philippines does have is that it was the first nation in Asia to rise up against colonial rule, it successfully overthrew a dictatorship and re-established democracy, it has a free Press, the Green Revolution was invented there, at the IIRI, without which the world would be starving now, its people speak English, etc. 

[Thomas]

A lesson that I have learned at personal cost - it almost broke up my relationship with a woman whom I love dearly - is that, the less you actually have, the more important your pride in what you do have becomes. See my thread on "poverty and what we don't think about".

The Philippines does not have a long history of military success and industrial innovation; what the Philippines does have is that it was the first nation in Asia to rise up against colonial rule, it successfully overthrew a dictatorship and re-established democracy, it has a free Press, the Green Revolution was invented there, at the IIRI, without which the world would be starving now, its people speak English, etc. 

Well. Yes, free press in theory, but several journalists have been MURDERED, because of publish bad things about people with power...  :bash:

(E g one latest (?) in Bukidnon, and earlier a whole group when they were in South Cotobato to check if an election was corect done...)

 

Yes, they have got rid of colonial powers and dictator, which make I find it odd they don't protest much more against power abuses from politicians...

[Methersgate]

Well. Yes, free press in theory, but several journalists have been MURDERED, because of publish bad things about people with power...  (E g one latest (?) in Bukidnon, and earlier a whole group when they were in South Cotobato to check if an election was corect done...)   Yes, they have got rid of colonial powers and dictator, which make I find it odd they don't protest much more against power abuses from politicians...

 

Yes, I know all that, but I am giving face, here. :)

[Methersgate]

"Now, why does the population of Metro Manila keep growing? Because people move to Manila from the provinces. They do that because life is better in Manila than it is in the provinces!"  I know some people from Mindanao and a few from Cebu who moved to Manila. All of them moved there for work. None of them moved there because they thought they would have a better life. Moving to Manila to work is similar to an OFW going to another country to work while leaving his family behind. Its only done for the money to support his family.  Some are women who are supporting their brothers and sisters.

 

We seem to be at cross purposes.

Isn't having work as opposed to not having an income a "better life"?

Edited September 5, 2014 by Methersgate