Bad Words?

[JJReyes]

Methersgate, on 04 Aug 2014 - 2:28 PM, said: Remember it was the Filipinos who gave the world the term "amok" as in "to run amok" -killing everyone in sight until the amok is himself killed   I had heard this before, but I was led to believe it had a Muslim content, similar to "juramentado".

 

The original context comes from the American occupation of the Philippines after the Spanish American War. Filipinos would pull out a bolo and in a suicidal attack tried to kill as many American troopers (US 7th Calvary) before  being killed. Supposedly, the side arms at the time did not have the stopping power if attacked by an "amok." This eventually led to the issuance of the .45 caliber semi-automatic. 

 

I recall watching a Gary Cooper film describing the above. The movie had the amoks as Muslims from Mindanao doing what we today describe as Jihadists. Maybe Hollywood's twisting the story is where the idea of it being Islamic comes from. My historical recollection is the US 7th Calvary was assigned to Luzon to defeat General Emilio Aguinaldo's Philippine Revolutionary Army.

Edited August 4, 2014 by JJReyes

[JJReyes]

Hi JJ. I understand them getting mad when someone says something bad to them, But why the physical violence. Do they have a lot of anger built up inside.  

 

The insult was leveled at a girl who comes from a prominent, wealthy family. She refused to dance with the drunk. The insult was intentional. The reaction may have been different if the guy was just unknowingly insensitive. I suspect it was one of her brothers who did the stabbing. The best way to describe the situation is like shouting the "N" word at a gathering where most of the guests are Black Americans. 

[El Negrito]

Yes, they do. It is a very high pressure, very crowded, society. People have very little personal space, they are expected to conform, and yet their culture requires them to think of themselves as big tough macho guys.

 

This is very interesting too as it seems like a mixture of Asian and Latino (or at least Mexican) cultures. Asian very high pressured, crowded and expected to conform and Mexican which is VERY macho and somewhat ready to fight.

 

I know I keep mentioning the mix but I am just amazed at how it seems to be interwoven to so many aspects. It kind of encourages me since I have been in Mexico 8 years I am feeling that maybe the Philippines may not feel all that foreign.

Edited August 4, 2014 by El Negrito

[Jack Peterson]

I know I keep mentioning the mix but I am just amazed at how it seems to be interwoven to so many aspects. It kind of encourages me since I have been in Mexico 8 years I am feeling that maybe the Philippines may not feel all that foreign.

 

 

I lived in Spain for 15+ years and I felt the same way, The mix and language (both verbal and body is very similar. I know from my own experiences here, that all I learned in Spain, has come in Very useful. As the language has a vast Spanish influence in it, It does not take too long to appreciate that you just, may be in the Wrong place at the Wrong time. Not a good idea, in many circumstances. 

 

I have found, that because of my Spanish experience and usually our locals can smell, that I am not just another Kano but Understand more, than they at first thought, they themselves, seem to moderate their thoughts and intentions.

 

I have also found, that they are (to an Extent) Wary, of anything out of the ordinary to them. Using this as a defense, can be good, when faced with a situation, that needs kid gloves. 

 

 

 

 

Morning All  :tiphat:  :morning1:

[MacBubba]

"Running amok" -

 

I decided to google the term. 

Wikipedia has it as of Malay/Indonesian origin.

It goes into historical and cross-cultural comparisons, and cites examples which include the Philippines, as shown below:

In the Philippines, amok also means unreasoning murderous rage by an individual. In 1876, the Spanish governor-general of the Philippines José Malcampo coined the term juramentado for the behavior (from juramentar - "to take an oath"), surviving into modern Filipino languages as huramentado.  It has historically been linked with the Moro people of Mindanao, particularly in the island of Jolo in connection with societal and cultural pressures.

[El Negrito]

I lived in Spain for 15+ years and I felt the same way, The mix and language (both verbal and body is very similar. I know from my own experiences here, that all I learned in Spain, has come in Very useful. As the language has a vast Spanish influence in it...

 

....  I have also found, that they are (to an Extent) Wary, of anything out of the ordinary to them. Using this as a defense, can be good, when faced with a situation, that needs kid gloves. 

 

Funny you mention those things. Mexicans are also very sensitive and proud and need to be treated with kid gloves. Thanks for confirming my thoughts with your experience!

[Jack Peterson]

Mexicans are also very sensitive and proud and need to be treated with kid gloves.

So my friend, as you can see, your transition into Filipino life is not going to be that difficult.  Using the knowledge gained from elsewhere, treading on Eggshells will not be a problem, you have hit it on the head really, as with the Mexicans, Spanish and I guess many, of the Latino based countries Pride, plays a big part in their life. Couple this, with the fierce Envy ( jealous) streak of the female and you are well on the way to integration. For me I ( and I have said this many times before.) Integration is a must, if we (The foreigner) are to succeed in our Quest.

 

No good finding what we feel, is Mrs Right, if we are not prepared to at least meet and try and get to know the other side of the Lady (Family, Friends) Yes, we all have our own theories, on the family but we should at least try and see life, from their perspective. By not doing so, we are as guilty as they ( that tell even the smallest little lie) of not being totally up front. 

 

How can we expect 100% from our Ladies if we, can't give 100%

 

Sorry if this sould like a sermon but somedays, I get the impression, that some, just want it all, their own way

 

 Whether it is a marriage or a lasting relationship (or whatever) it is about 2 people not just1

 

:tiphat:

[El Negrito]

No good finding what we feel, is Mrs Right, if we are not prepared to at least meet and try and get to know the other side of the Lady (Family, Friends) Yes, we all have our own theories, on the family but we should at least try and see life, from their perspective. By not doing so, we are as guilty as they ( that tell even the smallest little lie) of not being totally up front. 

 

 

How can we expect 100% from our Ladies if we, can't give 100%

 

Whether it is a marriage or a lasting relationship (or whatever) it is about 2 people not just1

 

Yes and I believe if you move be prepared to accept their culture as your own, language, customs, family and all. If their parents take ill then take care of them and if yours do she should be willing to do the same. Better hope they both don't at the same time but be prepared to split your time and have to travel if they do.

 

If you decide to live in RP then make that your home and don't always talk about "back home" or how they do things there. Make her family your family and make her part of yours. Be willing to bend for her family and make yours bend for her but all so that no one including has to break. I say that from experience with my late wife.

 

JP please keep your posts coming man. You are an inspiration!  :10001:   :th_thsmilies-29057:  :icon_GreatJobKao:

Edited August 5, 2014 by El Negrito

[jon1]

If you decide to live in RP then make that your home and don't always talk about "back home" or how they do things there.

 

 

That is spot on. This is not home and there are reasons why you came here. 

 

Here is an appropriate quote from another forum (written by a Canadian).

 

"It is not a cheaper and warmer version of home.

Quite frankly with this as an attitude, you might just as well go home. The majority of the complaints apply not only to the PI but to all lower income countries throughout SE Asia. I have heard the same complaints and gripes from expats living in Thailand, Viet Nam, and Indonesia etc.

These are different countries than any in the West and have different cultures different values and different ways of doing things than the Western countries. So get used to it or you might as well leave because you will never be happy until you get home again.

SE Asia does not have the wide spread rule of law that you are accustomed to at home. Basically the law is whatever the police and the judge, if you get that far, says it is and there is not much you can do about it except perhaps in extremely serious cases where you get your embassy involved. Free speech, right to a lawyer, freedom from cruel and unusual punishments habeas corpus and all the other legal niceties you may be used to simply do not apply.

Corruption is widespread, get used to it. I spent some time in Indonesia and my girlfriend was caught riding a motorcycle that was not registered. She paid the equal of about $25 cash bribe and received the cop’s phone number so that if she was stopped again the same day the next cop could phone the first cop and get confirmation that she had paid the “fine” for the day. A friend in Thailand reports the same thing because he doesn’t have a driver’s license. Pay the fine; get a phone number so you only have to pay once a day.

There is no traffic ticket like at home that you take and then pay a few days later. The option to the bribe would have been a trip to jail, confiscation of the bike which might or might not be returned in a few months.

Think about it. Bribe a police officer for a minor traffic offence and he will give you a phone number that anyone can call and he will confirm that he has accepted a bribe so you only have to pay it once a day. This guy does not care who knows that he accepted a bribe. It is the normal way of doing things in SE Asia.

If you try to take it up the chain of management the cost of the “fine” will only increase until you get someone with enough power mad at you that you will get thrown in jail until you pay a huge “fine”. You may just also get a chance to spend several days in jail to prepare you for paying a higher “fine”. If you insist on your right to contact your embassy, it may just take a few days for the call to go through.

Don’t worry about jail house food. It is as good as whatever family member brings you. The jails may or may not provide food you may have to get someone to bring it to you. No family member on the outside, don’t worry the jailer will for a not small fee, bring you some take away from a local restaurant. He may even give you some after he eats his fill too.

Inefficiency is widespread, get used to it. Once a person achieves a high enough position to influence streamlining the government, he is expected to give positions to extended family members and people he owes favours to or wants to owe him favours. There is no incentive for him to make the passport office any smoother or quicker or easier to use. He has done his job, getting jobs for friends and relatives. His job is not to make your life any easier.

Culture is also different. They never want to say anything bad so they will always say something good and you have to figure out through the clues what they mean. SE Asian culture is very different than at home where a westerner can say no without causing a loss of face for themselves or the other person. SE Asians will say no by not saying yes. They will talk about the difficulties of doing what you ask, they will talk about how long it will take, the cost. To a Westerner these are objections to be overcome to get to yes. To the SE Asian these are ways of saying no without hurting your feelings. The SE Asian is very perplexed why you do not understand that you have been told no.

If you want to be able to adapt here get some good books on the cultural differences between the PI and the West and read, study and understand them. Look for the cultural clues, they are very subtle until you can understand them.

Once you can fit in you will enjoy the benefits of the expat lifestyle or at least not be as frustrated by the differences.

It is either that or you can be miserable or go home. Your choice."

[JJReyes]

Excellent commentary, Jon. You did a good summation on the lifestyle of an expat in Asia.