Poverty And Some Effects Of It That We Do Not Perhaps Think About As Carefully As We Should.

[El Negrito]

FICO, a financial services consulting company, says that in 2012, the average U.S. grad’s student loan debt was $27,253 (about the same as in Canada)       With nearly a 100% employment rate, and earning on average $42,600/year after 6 months and up to $100,000 in 2 years, I don't see student loans to be a deterrent.

 

I understand what you are saying but many such studies don't reflect the harsh reality of life. Many times the numbers are cooked and they are government sponsored studies and there are many opposing arguments which contend that the government is in bed with universities in order to get people to take out government sponsored loans for education. I have seen many opposing studies which claim just the opposite of the above quote and show that the government is responsible for a student debt crisis very similar to the recent (and on going) credit crisis experienced especially in the US but also which has affected Canada.

 

Anyway studies aside I trust more in real life experiences and most people that I know that paid for university educations left them and or their parents with a large debt that took several years to pay off and they didn't end up working in the field of their choice for years if ever. I had countless friends and work colleagues in this situation and when they finished school they ended up working with me at Radio Shack where I had been for several years and I ended up being their manager or in one case my university educated manager (who had no plans on working at Radio Shack) ended up getting fired while I went on to work for another company and I got him a job on the loading docks while I worked in the purchasing department.

[robert k]

Here in the US I believe anyone can take the bar exam, I remember a paralegal who never even went to community college finally passing after about the 30th try. Unless it has changed I could walk in and take the masters electrician exam and make a decent wage if I pass.

 

I have a friend I met online, he was a public defender in Minnesota with about $200,000 in student loan debt and unpaid taxes and penalties. In short he was sunk, he was never going to get out from under that debt. He had 20 acres that an oil company was trying to lease and I did an analysis of what the production would be like and told him not to lease, to be non-consent or pay the money up front to participate in the drilling if he could. He scraped up $80,000 on his house and participated. After two years he tells me his debt is retired and he is in full retirement mode. The oil company is so incompetent they never even asked for the $80,000 participation money. I told him leave the $80k in a money market account just in case they ever wise up and make the call. they haven't yet and it's been 3 years and another well later in which he went non-consent this time. You can't do that everywhere but he inherited some really good acres. The best the oil company offered to lease was $2k and 20% royalty, it might have eased things but not cleared his debts. The oil company leased the states interests in the same 2 square mile spacing for $11,750 per acre which the guy would have accepted. The oil company did it to themselves by being cheap. I know plumbers who made more than this lawyer.

 

My niece got a degree in education and never held a job in education, married another teacher just out of college and stayed home to make babies. I told my brother he should have just sent her to audit some courses at a medical school and saved the tuition with the benefit of having a doctor in the family. They are so poor that my brother pays their cellphone bill so they will have cellphones and be able to tether for internet,and buys them a car every few years. I will leave it up to you to decide if the tuition was wasted. :tiphat:

Edited September 6, 2014 by robert k

[Jake]

My son is laughing all the way to the bank; he chose to go to sea and he is just finishing the first sea phase of his deck cadetship which in the UK is three years - college/sea time/college/sea time/college/exam/first job. Unlike his friends at university, he does not run up debt; he gets paid! He has just now gone ashore in Santos, Brazil. Getting paid to see the world beats backpacking...

If I had to do it all over again, I would immediately sign up in any military branch that would accept me.  In today's poor

employment rate and even poorer economy, a young 18 year old can learn the trade, get free room and board and be

on a solid payroll, just like Andrew's son Alex.  

 

Whereas, a college graduate with zero experience may land his dream job but to get laid off because the company

either merged, divided or went bankrupt within 3 months.  His new car, new wife, new baby and new mortgage are

being paid by what now?  

 

Being a young deck officer following the adventures like his father did or still does, Alex has been exposed to all the

sights and sounds of poverty throughout the world.  You can't learn the dark facts of life just sitting in a classroom.

Perhaps that will balance out a person, realizing that millions of people will never experience the same quality of life

as he does.  

 

You can taste poverty each and everyday while you're starving......

Edited September 7, 2014 by Jake
spil chek

[El Negrito]

I will leave it up to you to decide if the tuition was wasted.

 

You can taste poverty each and everyday while you're starving......

 

Age old tales I have heard time and again. It is everyone's decision to seek higher education or not. Like I said I myself have some college and university but only what I needed at the time and very often I didn't need it for most jobs. I can hold a conversation with and am as well educated as most university grads, sometimes more so. Not because I am so smart but because my family raised me to be that way and by the grace of God.

[Coffeehound]

For most of us education (formal) should be a means to an end, not the end goal. I myself have 3 degrees. Not because I like to collect paper, but they where a means to advance my career (read income). Didn't get my first one until I was 28, got number 3 at age 46.

The mentality that the PI is stuck in is that any degree is almost essential, and sadly, the US is rapidly going down that road too.

[Methersgate]

There is the question of quality, as well. A  badly taught and poorly supervised degree is just three years of having your brain damaged.

[El Negrito]

For most of us education (formal) should be a means to an end, not the end goal.

 

There is the question of quality, as well. A  badly taught and poorly supervised degree is just three years of having your brain damaged.

 

Triple likes on both these comments. Well said guys.  :thumbsup:

[Jack Peterson]

There is the question of quality, as well.

 

 

 During my early Service Years, the UK were still flying Non-Com-Crews. I flew many Times with these guys. All were enlisted men (no degrees and probably, not much further education to Speak of.) that made good. Their training was Operational and did What they were trained for, When the MOD ( Ministry of Defence ) Decide, in their Infinite wisdom to do away with this Status, we had a Big Change in Operations, now, we had the Graduate Entry only to the Flying  Wing.

 

I can tell you that at the time, I would have sooner had a Flight sergeant as my Number 2 than one of the So called Elite. Fast Trackers.

 

Strange as it seems, The Operational side of Air Crew is Non-Com. To me They Understand How it Flies & Why it Flies, they  maintain the Instruments and Keep it all Going (The Aircraft.) The Boys up Front?

They only Know where it is going. Next time you fly, Think! could the flight deck crew handle the cabin like the cabin crew do? Oh I know that they are probably degree holders too but i guess only at 3/1 level instead of the 1/1 up Front but it is the Common sense end that counts.

 

Something I have Noticed recently is the Cleverer some are the more Stupid they become.

 

Knowledge is not always power, sometimes it can be a Burden and you end up working in Jollibee.

 

Yes of course I have a Degree before you ask in fact 2, ATC ( Air traffic Control) and F/N (Flight Navigation. both the R.A.F University.

 

My Wings came from Service involvement and Operational Experience. 

 

Why Train an Artist to a Degree in Art,  If they really wants to be an Accountant. This is also to me a Problem, being Educated in the Wrong Topics, waste of time in the end.

Accountants like degrees but a degree in Art? and they don't make the grade. This to me, Stops, the College Kid Good at Maths, from a Career. All because of a Degree.  :no: not Good.

 

 

 Morning all JP :tiphat:  :morning1:

[El Negrito]

I can tell you that at the time, I would have sooner had a Flight sergeant as my Number 2 than one of the So called Elite. Fast Trackers.

 

Reminds me of when I was in law enforcement and even in EMS. I would rather serve with a cop that has street smarts than some of the other officers I served with that had or were pursuing so called Criminal Justice Degrees. And some of the nurses and medics that learned what they learned by experience were heads and shoulders above the university nurses and medics. I remember one half blind Filipino nurse (yes male nurse) and he could hit a vein especially a jugular (really hard one), he could hit those like no bodies business. He learned the hard way by experience both in PI and the US.

[Thomas]

 

Yes, IF I/wife/kids manage to earn enough by it     College/University educations cost much totaly anyway, which aren't sure giving any jobs at all. If put same amount to business investments, they at least give work a while...  

 

Totally agree. I have had so many friends waste so much time and money and come away broke or worse.

Yes, sure. It's possible I will lose my investments too,

BUT many have failed by they start without having experience.   I don't know comcerning Phils, but in Thailand many foreigners believe they can become a successful bar owner, because they have been a customer in such much...   :mocking: