Foreign Ownership Issues

[robert k]

I think the Philippines is absolutely brilliant in not allowing foreign ownership but there is one problem, it means that Filipino's have to start the industry needed. Filipino investment in Filipino industry seems lacking, instead you get more malls, selling imported stuff to the masses. With industry there would be more and better paying jobs and the malls would do even better business because more people would have more money.

 

I don't see what the problem is with a foreigner owning a life estate in land as long as the land would revert to a Filipino upon his passing and before he passes, he would be free to sell the property. You can't really own something after you are dead and while alive, you would enjoy all the benefits of owning and while delayed, the land would always revert to a Philippine national eventually so no land would ever be alienated, which I believe is the true intent of the law, not so?

 

Apparently, the Philippines does not want to deliver that kind of control over land into a foreigners hands. You either have a Filipino national you can trust whose name can be on the deed or you would be advised to rent. If it's an investment you are seeking, find a different one, at least until attitudes and the law changes.

 

I get chuckles from the corporation thing where you own 40% and others own the 60%. Let me ask this, if you can't find one Filipino you can trust, what makes you think that trying to find 5 or 6 would make the situation better? I mean I just could wait for you to build a 10,000,000 piso house on land that I own 10% of, that I paid nothing for. Thank you for improving my investment. What is to say that those in the corporation will not get together? If you are not signing over 10% to complete strangers, they know you, you know them and likely they know who else you know. You are the minority shareholder. Of course people say but I will do this and I will do that, but then you are looking at the dummy law, it is against the law to try to get around the law that foreigners can not own land. I am sure that many get away with it. Many laws are flouted with impugnity by people in the Philippines, the question is, are you well connected enough to be one of them? I saw a youtube video of a tour of an entire resort that was built but never opened, it was really nice, you could tell it was really nice even though it had been reclaimed by the jungle. Someone connected built that, someone who thought they had all the connections, someone who had more money than I will ever have, and they got the rug pulled out from under them.

 

In the US, realestate is a fairly good investment, at least it's a known quantity. In the US your land can appreciate and one day you could sell it for much more than you paid for it if you wait for the right time to sell. In the US, as long as you pay your taxes and upkeep of the property it will always be yours no matter how much it becomes worth, nobody will pull the rug out from under you. If I tried to "own" some Philippine property, I would be more afraid that my "investment" became TOO valuable, too valuable to allow me to keep it.

 

Dave Hounddriver has the right of it, as I recollect there was a foreign country that Madelyn Albright was offered a secretary of state position or some such and she couldn't do it, nor serve in another countries armed forces in any capacity, in conflict with the US, dual citizenship is no problem. I think you could become a Philippine national, meet the residency requirements, learn a dialect and so forth. If you are really connected enough to "own" land, maybe you are connected enough to get in the quota citizenships, I believe there are 50 a year?

 

I really don't understand this burning desire that people have to own land in their own name in the Philippines when it is patently obvious that the Philippines does not want you to own land. As it is, you are worried about your lease? Do you really think it would change anything if your name was on the title to the land? Assuming you don't have citizenship? That you would no longer have to worry? There is always the trump card that they could make up a story to get you deported, then you could have your name on the title of Philippine land when you reside in another country. If that failed, there is always two men on a motorcycle wearing helmets with tinted visors. It looks to me like a rigged game, even if by some chance you win, you could be mugged afterwards on your way home, but people still want to buy in. If ownership is top priority, you can own a condo. Some people like it but it's not for me and ownership of more than chattle is not important to me and not that much in chattle, the more furniture you own, the less living space you actually have and if it all fits on one truck, moving is not a super pain in the butt. :thumbsup:

Edited August 18, 2014 by robert k

[Methersgate]

I differ from Robert in that i have no doubt at all that the Constitutional restraint on foreign ownership has held the country back and has created a class of mere rent seekers and "dummies".

 

There are no restrictions on foreign ownership in Britain, the important thing is not who owns what but that the law is applied.

 

It works; the Philippines does not.

 

I could add a technical economic argument about the rate of capital formation in developing economies, but I will spare you...

Edited August 18, 2014 by Methersgate

[robert k]

I did mention that the Philippines needs to invest in their own industry, I left out the part, if they are not going to allow anyone else to do it because I thought it was obvious.

 

It's not like there is not a concentration of money in some Filipino's hands, look what they spend it on though, malls not manufacturing plants.

Edited August 18, 2014 by robert k

[cebu rocks]

Expats should be able to own land in small parcels maybe 1000sq meters in total until this happens the RP will never be a true retirement destination . I agree with the death clause once your gone it gos back to a native 

[Methersgate]

I did mention that the Philippines needs to invest in their own industry, I left out the part, if they are not going to allow anyone else to do it because I thought it was obvious.

 

It's not like there is not a concentration of money in some Filipino's hands, look what they spend it on though, malls not manufacturing plants.

I  think we can assume that Filipino businessmen at the top lever are very capable. Tak Andrew Tan; Emperador brandy is now the world's second biuggest spirit brand. Same goes for many others.

So why not invest in manufacturing? Hih cos of energy, useless infrastructure, capricious Customs and other regulators.

But even if the billionaires did invest in manufacturing it would not be enough. THeir collective wealth would be just a drop in the ocean; the problem is that the capital needed to employ the under employed and unemployed in manufacturing would be much more. The answer is the big pension funds and life assurers of the West. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by Methersgate

[robert k]

I believe my point has been missed.

 

I think you are talking about starting at the top while I am talking about starting at 1940 US standards. nobody gets to start at the top. It's a process, each country has it's own industrial revolution, it didn't spring up fully formed anywhere that I know of.

 

Maybe you need to build a power plant next to a harbor so the power and road infrastructure is not so crippling?

 

That Filipino businessmen are able to make money is not in question. I never said they couldn't make money. I am saying look at what they invest most in. In other threads I have said that the ore needs to be mined by Filipinos, refined in Filipino foundaries and used in Filipino manufactures, that's how a nation is built along with fortunes.

 

The US didn't have squat at one time, very little electricity, mud roads, which countries entrepenures came in and set it all up for us? The top is not the only place to start. Not too long ago I watched a video of a man restoring a wood fired steam powered generator that was used in the US in the 30's because there was no electricity where it was needed. It wasn't even on wheels, it was on skids and was dragged to where it needed to be. I'm not really open to the suggestion that it can't be done. Somebody, sometime, somewhere started from scratch. The Philippines has a huge leg up on that in technical data. The Philippines has the resources. The Philippines has men wealthy enough to invest in what they need, but they evidently have no interest in doing so.

 

I also never said I did not think that the prohibition on foreign ownership was not holding the Philippines back.

 

It would not be absolutely necessary to have foreign ownership, if Filipinos would make the investment themselves.

Edited August 18, 2014 by robert k

[fred]

I blame our western Governments and so called diplomats.

I believe that Filipino`s should suffer the same treatment abroad as we suffer here in regards property ownership..

Fair and Square Parity required!

[scott h]

I just read an article in the paper today. They are discussing charter change to allow more outside land ownership. I have no doubt that the rich are a big influence so that they can keep the power to themselves, but the article referenced some wording of the charter that made me stop and think a bit. The charter refers to "protecting the patrimony" of the Philippines. I can see how if outsiders went out to the proviences where everyone is dirt poor and offered large sums of money the small farmers (pick your definition of land owner) would most likely sell out in a heart beat and leave nothing to their family. Like I said, it just made me stop and think a bit.

[alsuave]

Discriminating against foreigners is dumb. The reason the US developed so quickly is because it was open to immigrants who saw opportunity there. If foreigners come to the Philippines and build up industry, their children, grandchildren, etc will be more and more Filipino with every generation that passes. It would eventually all end up being Filipino owned anyway.

Just be careful what deals you make with large foreign corporations.

Side note. I've read that Singapore actually encourages foreign entrepreneurs to move there and start businesses. That's smart.

Edited August 19, 2014 by alsuave

[scott h]

Side note. I've read that Singapore actually encourages foreign entrepreneurs to move there and start businesses. That's smart

 

True, but do they have land available in Singapore for sale? Agree they are smart in letting foreign owned businesses in. But I am sure you recall the uproar in the 70's and 80's in the states when the Japanese were coming in and buying up all the property and big malls in the cities.