"face" - Gaining It, Losing It, And Indeed Regaining It, And Its Effects..

[Methersgate]

The great Mystery of the East.

 

Or is it just a failure to mature beyond the schoolkid stage?

 

I think there is muc to discuss here - Filipinos are never more Asian than when "face" is concerned.

 

As a starter...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

 

Not at all a simple matter.

 

A comment from a sister in law:

"When someone lost their face they cannot look at you or not even want to be with you"

And a comment from an English friend with thirty years in the Philippines:

One can understand the broad concept but no the nuances -
"Can I buy you a beer?" -
"I can buy my own beer, you think I can't afford to buy myself a beer? How dare you insult me..."

Is the loss of face permanent, or can face be recovered?

etc..

Edited to add:


A bit more, here - Filipinos live in a "high context" culture whereas most of us here live in "low context" cultures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-_and_low-context_cultures

Edited January 31, 2015 by Methersgate

[Old55]

Face is difficult to understand and no two Filipinos react the same. 

Face is even more confusing due to the fact few Foreigners would ever understand the social ranking of each individual. There are just so many factors behind "face" to easily describe it.

[Jack Peterson]

:unsure: I have on occasions told my 2 put a mirror behind your head when combing you hair or doing the make up! WHY?  comes the Answer.

:rolleyes:  well if you do that, you can see Both of your faces. 

MORAL, I find a Lot of our Wonderful people here, use the face issue as a Major Defence. 

 

JP :tiphat:

[Dave Hounddriver]

Since this is a 'revived topic' from last year I will post a link to the previous discussion:

 

http://www.philippines-expats.com/topic/19706-face-what-is-it/?p=125502

[Kuya John]

Since this is a 'revived topic' from last year I will post a link to the previous discussion:

 

http://www.philippines-expats.com/topic/19706-face-what-is-it/?p=125502

Dont you think that's a bit two faced Dave

NOT ABLE to place a smilie on this device.?

[Thomas]

 

Regain face

Well.  I suppouse possible for SMALL errors,

but for BIG errors  I find it can recover SOME, BUT NEVER recover fully...

 

 

COMPARE : "Reputation" in our home countries. 

It take LONG time to get a GOOD reputation.

but it can take SECONDS to DESTROY it...

 

One, who HAVEN'T done any serious errors EVER, is most likely to not do any in the future either,

while one, who have done serious error once or more, has MUCH biger risk to do serious errors AGAIN...

(I'm talking about when it's done by someone, who is old enough to understand such things proper. Some teenagers don't   :)

 

That's why it's very important to never do any big error    :)

 

I suppouse it's similar in SE Asia, but they have some OTHER MESSURES of size of errors and what's ok.

[Methersgate]

This is getting interesting.

It follows that if lost face cannot be recovered then, if one has once been bad, one may as well carry on being bad.

Which is contrary to the Christian doctrine of redemption and forgiveness.

The Prodigal Son would have stayed away, being unable either to face his father or to try to change his ways.

 

And this is why we see on the one hand the Maria Clara and on the other the debauched bar girl and nothing in between? 

[lonewolf]

in other words always remember a million atta boys can be wiped out with one "OH SH*T"

[Methersgate]

The point that my sister in law makes about someone who has "lost face"  being unable to look at, or even to be in the company of, someone to whom they have lost their face, is very important.

Assume you have an employee - a guard or a driver - and you catch him in an act of dishonesty; he has lost face to you and your presence is now unbearable to him, so if you are lucky he will walk out of the job and if you are unlucky he will kill you.

Likewise the wife or girlfriend of a foreigner who has a "sideline" local boyfriend (whom she is probably supporting with the foreigner's money) will, if the foreigner finds out, feel compelled to leave the foreigner and stick with the penniless "sideline" - here again murder provides a convenient alternative solution to the unbearable humiliation of having to see the man that she has "wronged".

The other way round the problem is the flat denial, even when the facts are not in doubt. The person who has lost face will try their very best to persuade themselves that they never took the money, never slept with the sideline, etc.

If confronted with a flat denial of something which to us is obvious, our first reaction is to "point out" the obvious truth. This may be a mistake. There may be a less direct way of dealing with it, which will avoid the catastrophic loss of face. but which still gets our message across.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Methersgate

[RBM]

Likewise the wife or girlfriend of a foreigner who has a "sideline" local boyfriend (whom she is probably supporting with the foreigner's money) will, if the foreigner finds out, feel compelled to leave the foreigner and stick with the penniless "sideline" - here again murder provides a convenient alternative solution to the unbearable humiliation of having to see the man that she has "wronged".

 

Are we discussing the possibility of killing the hen that lays the ...........

 

No loss of face I doubt would go this far....begging for forgiveness more likely.

 

To make up normal loss of face I think the situation must be reversed, in other words have the suffering soul be able to do likewise to the inflict-er. Most foreigners this does not matter and if it solves the situation great.

 

From my experience the more....... how would I say, perhaps uneducated or provincial Filipino is far more likely to loose face quicker than an educated city dweller. Further with more severe consequences.