Would You Do It?

[davewe]

Sent it, and in retrospect can't believe I even had to think about it.  I guess we all become a little jaded due to the normal paradigm in PH. 

 

I don't think you are jaded just because of the "normal paradigm." I think it's easy to get jaded the more we hear and read about all the scamming families and Filipinos. Sometimes the stories themselves are worse than the actual requests and we get jaded, expecting the worst.

 

While I am sure there are plenty of bad families (as well as scammers in all cultures) I am guess there are at least as many like the good friends you describe.

 

The only advise I would give (as did others) is to make it a one shot deal if possible and not an annual contribution.

Edited April 8, 2015 by davewe

[sonjack2847]

If I was in that situation and could afford it I would give them the money as a gift. I would also say to them that there will be no more money in future so please don`t ask.

[i am bob]

 I"m a little late to the party on this one so I just want to add one thing that nobody else mentioned...

 

Your friends helped you out of a difficult situation 12 years ago...  They now have 9 children - I imagine they had several back when they helped you, right?  Perhaps they and their children at the time had to do without so they could supply you with the help you needed...?

 

Now, I know it's moot to throw this out there now - especially after you wrote about helping them and wondering why you asked us at all - but just in case somebody else reading this might be in a similar situation...    Remember - the Good Book says "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...  (Now if I can just get that book finished!  Only 6 more chapters to write...  What's that?  Somebody already has a Good Book that says that?  Doh!)

 

:mocking:  :tiphat:

[chris49]

British mate Txxx, not a member here. Txxx, is 52, no pension, no capital. Initially came here to meet his gf about 3 yrs ago. I think after the first trip they fell in love (of course) and Txxx came here again with about 200k. As he told he they had a few emergencies and he went through the 200k (pesos) in a few months.

 

He got some more capital from his mother and they bought the premises, pavement and a roof, for a small carinderia (80k) and they started running it 18 months ago. She worked 6 days/week, 12 hours and they lived there under the roof and 3 walls, but not fully enclosed. Nice place but basic, they would get in 5k per day and about 3k out for the expenses. Nothing towards his immigration which lapsed, and he smoked heavily plus afternoon drinks. In short no profit and more or less even or taking a loss. Then bills to pay on top.

 

I met Txxx and naturally befriended him. I liked the guy but I'm not a drinker so at the same time I kept my distance. We put on a few brunches for my bike club, and I paid the bill. I did it to help them, but it didn't hurt my image with the club.

 

He started to get circulatory problems in the feet and soon enough loss of circulation. I found out he had a balloon angioplasty in the right femoral artery, and he was pending to do the left, but he didn't do it. Short version, I helped him as much as I could being a nurse, but clearly he might lose the toes, maybe the foot if he didn't restore the circulation ASAP. We got him on his way back to UK last June, but he didn't clear immigration because of the lapsed visa status. His elderly mother had been chipping in small amounts, even support for his partner, but she couldn't help more. He had to go to the British Embassy Manila for emergency funds. They issued him an amount, but it was tied into his passport, eg 6 months to pay or face a travel ban out of UK. So he got back to UK.

 

He was treated under National Health as an emergency and luckily his leg came around. They gave him a period of up to 10 years where he might have good blood flow but no guarantee. Txxx is a tradesman, all rounder, so he got work doing renovations, working for his brother he quickly paid all his debts and per him got about 3000 pounds ahead. Within 90 days of going back to UK, he got his ticket to come back here.

 

Continued the business and within 2 months cash was depleted, so came up to the end of 2014, similar to before. And he let his immigration status lapse again. And a few bills and credits, and again tapped his old mother again for some emergency money. Jan, Feb, March, held status quo but with no improvement. Health was good, but he started smoking again, and a few drinks. I was not there to see that, I think not an alcoholic, but spent an amount per day on drinks and cigs. Wife is decent and she shut up but not completely.

 

Fast forward again. April 2015, after a lull for Easter and not much business for 4 days. And from what he says they have significant bills to pay and got hooked into 2 money lenders. One a co-op and one an Indian 5/6 loan. Several times I told Bony Morony (as I call him) to get back to UK and do 6 months work. He agreed, but took no action on it. I'm a loyal friend so I patronised their place, just to give them business, Food was ok, but I didn't have to go there. And we would have a chat and I would inject my advice. His partner remained silent, luckily she's cool enough, but she was worried enough and it was showing...18 months of hard yakka over a hot fire and it will take a toll. I have seen it before when Filipina wife takes on a business financed by her husband, they will sacrifice themselves to salvage the business, the relationship.

 

Today he hit me with a request for a 7k loan.

 

His partner says her daughter has been accepted in Medical School, needs 26k to cover the enrollment and tuition. Within 24 hours they claim. Or she will lose her place. And I'm not saying I believe that, because when I probed both of them for the name of the school, they couldn't come up with a name.

 

I made my decision, so what did I do? Answer to follow with more back story,

 

MODERATORS, JGF, move to new topic if that would be appropriate.

Edited April 9, 2015 by chris49

[Thomas]

He got some more capital from his mother and they bought the premises, pavement and a roof, for a small carinderia (80k) and they started running it 18 months ago. She worked 6 days/week, 12 hours and they lived there under the roof and 3 walls, but not fully enclosed. Nice place but basic, they would get in 5k per day and about 3k out for the expenses. Nothing towards his immigration which lapsed, and he smoked heavily plus afternoon drinks. In short no profit and more or less even or taking a loss. Then bills to pay on top.

??? How could it be even/loss???

5k-3k = PLUS 2k per DAY... 

That's ENOUGH to live of with the extra "kano costs" too.

 

According to the red market and other things you wrote, HE RUINED it.

As with Filipinos, I WOULDN'T support/loan ANYONE, who can afford alcohol and smoking much... 

[chris49]

 

He got some more capital from his mother and they bought the premises, pavement and a roof, for a small carinderia (80k) and they started running it 18 months ago. She worked 6 days/week, 12 hours and they lived there under the roof and 3 walls, but not fully enclosed. Nice place but basic, they would get in 5k per day and about 3k out for the expenses. Nothing towards his immigration which lapsed, and he smoked heavily plus afternoon drinks. In short no profit and more or less even or taking a loss. Then bills to pay on top.

??? How could it be even/loss???

5k-3k = PLUS 2k per DAY... 

That's ENOUGH to live of with the extra "kano costs" too.

 

According to the red market and other things you wrote, HE RUINED it.

As with Filipinos, I WOULDN'T support/loan ANYONE, who can afford alcohol and smoking much... 

 

 

Electricity bill. Bill for rice. Payment for loans. Payment to City Hall which they call business tax. Payment to the worker. Bottled water they have to buy. Ice. Plates and cups which would be replaced now and then.

 

How about rainy days, holidays. His drinks and smokes. 5k is their daily income, 3k they have to spend on the foods.

 

How about the gas cylinder refill. His immigration fees which are behind.

 

She is supporting a child in college, going to Med School.

 

So your answer is no. No loan?

Edited April 9, 2015 by chris49

[afathertobe]

A guy that could easily get himself out of the situation by working a few months in the UK is not really deserving of constant support by others me thinks. 

 

If anything it might only make his situation worse if people keep allowing him to loan money from all sources he can tap. 

[Thomas]

 

 

He got some more capital from his mother and they bought the premises, pavement and a roof, for a small carinderia (80k) and they started running it 18 months ago. She worked 6 days/week, 12 hours and they lived there under the roof and 3 walls, but not fully enclosed. Nice place but basic, they would get in 5k per day and about 3k out for the expenses. Nothing towards his immigration which lapsed, and he smoked heavily plus afternoon drinks. In short no profit and more or less even or taking a loss. Then bills to pay on top.

??? How could it be even/loss???

5k-3k = PLUS 2k per DAY... 

That's ENOUGH to live of with the extra "kano costs" too.

 

According to the red market and other things you wrote, HE RUINED it.

As with Filipinos, I WOULDN'T support/loan ANYONE, who can afford alcohol and smoking much... 

 

 

Electricity bill. Bill for rice. Payment for loans. Payment to City Hall which they call business tax. Payment to the worker. Bottled water they have to buy. Ice. Plates and cups which would be replaced now and then.

How about rainy days, holidays. His drinks and smokes. 5k is their daily income, 3k they have to spend on the foods.

How about the gas cylinder refill.

Now you write 3k FOOD.

Earlier you wrote 3k EXPENSISES. That's a HUGE difference, because the what I red marked in your last text are "expenses".

((In juridical point of view are taxes, plates and cups not "expenses", but in people's mind they are.Plates and cups belong to "investments" which are expenses too, but the acounting cost of them are spread during a longer period.))

 

Depending of restaurant type, but some earn MORE during holidays   :)

 

Why do they GO ON with the business, if it isn't profitable?? 

His immigration fees which are behind. She is supporting a child in college, going to Med School. So your answer is no. No loan?

Nurse?   There are 400 000 UNEMPLOYED examed in Phils nurses allready, so such is WASTED (except make it easier to become OFW).

 

You told he brought money, has got more from his mother, and loans for the business too (?) but he behind ANYWAY  - and smend much money at alcohol and smoke still... 

 

I know it can be hard to quit, so I can THINK OF giving loan to IMPROVED business or living costs  - IF I believe the odds is GOOD it will function.  If  anyone with money problem DON'T WANT to quit, or don't try PROPER,  I WOULDN'T give loan to such person even if it was my own sister, because that's ASSISTING them GOING ON what's BAD for them.     Giving loan WITHOUT CHANGE in the situation he is would just be throwing more money after LOST money...   Or do you REALY believe he EVER can pay you back without change? 

If anything it might only make his situation worse if people keep allowing him to loan money from all sources he can tap.

Exactly.

[chris49]

A guy that could easily get himself out of the situation by working a few months in the UK is not really deserving of constant support by others me thinks. 

 

If anything it might only make his situation worse if people keep allowing him to loan money from all sources he can tap. 

 

Good answer.

 

I agree with you. And I'm onto him even more to get himself back to the UK to work 6 months. And have the luxury of 6 months here for a least a few more years. (Remember his health is not 100% guaranteed).

 

So your answer is no loan?

[chris49]

Thomas. Med School=Medical School. As in becoming a Dr.

 

Nursing School is for nursing. Engineering School for engineers and so on.

 

The question does not ask you to evaluate or give your opinion on that. 

 

So now, cutting through the cinnamon (that means the extra spice you put on your answer). Your answer is no loan.

 

So now.

 

NO=2

 

YES=0

 

So far.