Say It Isn't So!! Pnp: No More 'special' Gun Permits For Civilians

[Mr Lee]

This goes hand and hand with this earlier post I made.http://www.welcometothephilippines.com/for...ost&p=10359What do you think the government is afraid of? Governments are only afraid of its people when they want to do something that the people may not stand for. I sure hope that is not the reason behind this. PNP: No more 'special' gun permits for civilians MANILA, Philippines - Philippine National Police chief Director General Jesus Verzosa has asked the military and other law enforcement agencies to stop issuing permits for civilians to carry firearms outside their homes.In a statement, Verzosa said National Firearms Control Program director Chief Superintendent Ireno Bacolod is coordinating with these agencies to stop handing out mission orders (MO) and Memorandum Receipts (MR) to civilians.The action is being pursued under the National Firearms Control Program to regulate the proliferation of guns, he added.An MR is an official document issued by a government agency for government property and equipment, including government-owned firearms.On the other hand, an MO is an official document that authorizes law enforcers to carry firearms while in the performance of official duty.PNP spokesman Senior Superintendent Leonardo Espina said these documents enable civilians to carry guns by making it appear that their guns are government property, and that they belong to law enforcement agencies.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Mr. Lee

[Mik]

No More 'special' Gun Permits For Civilians, This may be a prelude to martial law

I was thinking the same thing when I read the article. Be sure to register all your firearms. That will make it easier for the police when the time comes to confiscate all civilian firearms. Then law abiding citizens will be defenseless while the criminals will still have their unlicensed guns. Firearms registration is just another means to increase government power at the expense of your personal rights.

[Mr Lee]

And yet another move in that direction. Step by step, inch by inch. DILG: Make illegal gun possession non-bailableThe Department of Interior and Local Government (DILG) on Thursday asked lawmakers to make the charge of illegal gun possession a non-bailable offense.Interior and Local Government Secretary Ronaldo Puno, who also chairs the National Police Commission (Napolcom), said that he has requested

[mike]

And yet another move in that direction. Step by step, inch by inch. DILG: Make illegal gun possession non-bailableThe Department of Interior and Local Government (DILG) on Thursday asked lawmakers to make the charge of illegal gun possession a non-bailable offense.Interior and Local Government Secretary Ronaldo Puno, who also chairs the National Police Commission (Napolcom), said that he has requested "Congress to impose a stricter penalty for illegal possession of firearms.""We are asking that the charge on illegal possession of firearms be made non-bailable," the secretary said.He cited that under Republic Act 8294, the unlawful possession, manufacture, sale, acquisition, or disposition of firearms or ammunition is a bailable offense and those found guilty gets a maximum jail term of six years and a penalty not less than P15,000.Meanwhile, Puno reminded owners of unlicensed firearms to avail of the gun amnesty period for the entire month of October.The secretary warned that all guns not properly registered would be confiscated immediately and criminal charges would be filed against the owners in court.Despite this, the DILG chief assured gun owners that the Philippine National Police (PNP) will accept the registrations of their unlicensed firearms and those with expired licenses during the amnesty period with "no questions asked."Puno said the PNP will begin processing the applications of late registrants, or those with unrenewed licenses in implementing President Arroyo's National Gun Control Program, as spelled out under Executive Order 817."We have compiled a list--complete with the addresses of these late registrants -- and we will give them this gun amnesty period to update the registration of their firearms," Puno said.Puno said that to make it convenient for gun owners to register their unlicensed firearms, the PNP will set up registration stations in the different towns and cities nationwide.Even before the amnesty period starts, Puno said the PNP will start receiving applications starting August 1 to accommodate those who would like to comply early with the law.EO 817, which provides for a general amnesty for the registration of loose firearms, has tasked the PNP to conduct active police operations against unregistered firearms through random weapons checks in crime-prone areas; mobile checkpoint and chokepoint operations; intelligence build-up; internal security operations; application of search warrants; and dismantling of private armed groups.http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/213577/dilg-...ion-nonbailable

Coming from a country where guns are not carried and even most police are unarmed. I cannot see what the problem is. Most weapons are for self at home defence and its not a problem under these proposals.Never could see why anyone felt so neurotic that they had to be armed to the teeth or is to the death just to get along and do their normal daily routine, unless of course you reside in a war zone :th_thsmilies-29057: Perhaps less guns on the street might be a good thing, stops these bigger foreigners being gunned down by retired police officers etc.Getting weapons off police before they stroll into my place has gotten easier. I ban them unless they comply or they are in uniform on official business, it works no guns no alcohol mix etcI am trying to work out when did I ever feel threatened anywhere in the world because I do not carry a weapon, short answer is no where. When did i ever feel terrorised by a duly elected government, nope never done that either. Hell I am just plain weird!! :any-help:

[Mr Lee]

Coming from a country where guns are not carried and even most police are unarmed. I cannot see what the problem is. Most weapons are for self at home defence and its not a problem under these proposals.Never could see why anyone felt so neurotic that they had to be armed to the teeth or is to the death just to get along and do their normal daily routine, unless of course you reside in a war zone :th_thsmilies-29057: Perhaps less guns on the street might be a good thing, stops these bigger foreigners being gunned down by retired police officers etc.Getting weapons off police before they stroll into my place has gotten easier. I ban them unless they comply or they are in uniform on official business, it works no guns no alcohol mix etcI am trying to work out when did I ever feel threatened anywhere in the world because I do not carry a weapon, short answer is no where. When did i ever feel terrorised by a duly elected government, nope never done that either. Hell I am just plain weird!! :any-help:

Mike, first I totally agree that guns and alcohol do not mix and you are correct to not allow guns in your place of business. Next, the main problem that most from non gun countries do not want to accept is, bad guys will always kill with whatever they have and they will also always have access to get guns and especially in a country like the Philippines where guns are hand made all the time and sold under the table. Gun laws only work to take guns from honest people who apply for or have had permits, after all, only honest people even bother to apply for a permit and bad guys who carry guns do not have permits and probably never have. Taking guns away from honest people is sort of like taking cars from good drivers because of drunk drivers killing people with their cars. Punishing the good because of the bad never seems to work. Anyway, I really do not wish to get into a pissing contest with you or any of the non gunners, the facts are that when a country who allows guns, starts to take them away, people better watch out because bad things are probably coming and anyone who follows history knows that is most often true.Mike, if there was a way to take away guns from everyone, then I would gladly give up my guns. New York City and Washington DC have some of the toughest gun laws in our country, yet they also have the most illegal guns of any place in the USA and the most gun crimes. Crime has gone down in every state in the US that freely issues gun permits to honest citizens and more and more government officials in the US are recognizing that and making reciprical laws to allow people with permits in other states to carry in their states. Florida is just one example http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html Florida has a reciprocal agreement with 32 other states within the US that also allow people with Florida permits to carry guns in their states. The people who run Florida and those states have come out of the stone age and woken up to the facts that a very minute number of people who have permits commit crimes compared to a much larger number of people without permits who commit crimes, so concealed weapons permit people are much more honest and less likely to commit crimes and it is the rest of the population that are an unknown. Yes there will always be the exception to the rule when alcohol is added, but maybe they should outlaw the alcohol because those problems are not present without it. After all, if there were no guns there would be no gun crime, so it should follow that if there is no alcohol then there would be no alcohol related killings or accidents. So is it the alcohol or the person who drinks it that is the problem? Do we outlaw the alcohol because a small percentage of the people who drink it are problems when drunk or do we punish those who get drunk and do bad things? Using the reasoning of the governments who do not allow guns, we should outlaw the alcohol. What if the Philippines decided to outlaw alcohol because of all the drunks who commit assaults or murder while drunk, how would you feel about that. BTW, one of my wife's family by marriage was killed with a machete when a relative of his got drunk and they argued about politics, so maybe we need to outlaw machetes too. No, I think we should outlaw alcohol because it is evil. lol

[brock]

I come from England, and have never felt the need to own a gun, But in a country where gun ownership is legal, I would say their is more gun crime, In the Philippines I have 5 guns in my house,which I do not agree with, but my father inlaw insists we have them.I do not know anybody personaly who has been shot or involved with a gun related incident in England. I could ask a thousand people that question and the answer would be the same..What would the answer be in a country that allows you to own a gun ?, my guess is they know someone.

[Jollygoodfellow]

Coming from a country where guns are not carried and even most police are unarmed. I cannot see what the problem is. Most weapons are for self at home defence and its not a problem under these proposals.Never could see why anyone felt so neurotic that they had to be armed to the teeth or is to the death just to get along and do their normal daily routine, unless of course you reside in a war zone :th_thsmilies-29057: Perhaps less guns on the street might be a good thing, stops these bigger foreigners being gunned down by retired police officers etc.Getting weapons off police before they stroll into my place has gotten easier. I ban them unless they comply or they are in uniform on official business, it works no guns no alcohol mix etcI am trying to work out when did I ever feel threatened anywhere in the world because I do not carry a weapon, short answer is no where. When did i ever feel terrorised by a duly elected government, nope never done that either. Hell I am just plain weird!! :any-help:

Mike, first I totally agree that guns and alcohol do not mix and you are correct to not allow guns in your place of business. Next, the main problem that most from non gun countries do not want to accept is, bad guys will always kill with whatever they have and they will also always have access to get guns and especially in a country like the Philippines where guns are hand made all the time and sold under the table. Gun laws only work to take guns from honest people who apply for or have had permits, after all, only honest people even bother to apply for a permit and bad guys who carry guns do not have permits and probably never have. Taking guns away from honest people is sort of like taking cars from good drivers because of drunk drivers killing people with their cars. Punishing the good because of the bad never seems to work. Anyway, I really do not wish to get into a pissing contest with you or any of the non gunners, the facts are that when a country who allows guns, starts to take them away, people better watch out because bad things are probably coming and anyone who follows history knows that is most often true.Mike, if there was a way to take away guns from everyone, then I would gladly give up my guns. New York City and Washington DC have some of the toughest gun laws in our country, yet they also have the most illegal guns of any place in the USA and the most gun crimes. Crime has gone down in every state in the US that freely issues gun permits to honest citizens and more and more government officials in the US are recognizing that and making reciprical laws to allow people with permits in other states to carry in their states. Florida is just one example http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html Florida has a reciprocal agreement with 32 other states within the US that also allow people with Florida permits to carry guns in their states. The people who run Florida and those states have come out of the stone age and woken up to the facts that a very minute number of people who have permits commit crimes compared to a much larger number of people without permits who commit crimes, so concealed weapons permit people are much more honest and less likely to commit crimes and it is the rest of the population that are an unknown. Yes there will always be the exception to the rule when alcohol is added, but maybe they should outlaw the alcohol because those problems are not present without it. After all, if there were no guns there would be no gun crime, so it should follow that if there is no alcohol then there would be no alcohol related killings or accidents. So is it the alcohol or the person who drinks it that is the problem? Do we outlaw the alcohol because a small percentage of the people who drink it are problems when drunk or do we punish those who get drunk and do bad things? Using the reasoning of the governments who do not allow guns, we should outlaw the alcohol. What if the Philippines decided to outlaw alcohol because of all the drunks who commit assaults or murder while drunk, how would you feel about that. BTW, one of my wife's family by marriage was killed with a machete when a relative of his got drunk and they argued about politics, so maybe we need to outlaw machetes too. No, I think we should outlaw alcohol because it is evil. lol

MANILA, Philippines - Philippine National Police chief Director General Jesus Verzosa has asked the military and other law enforcement agencies to stop issuing permits for civilians to carry firearms outside their homes.

I have only read the article quickly but I don't see where you are coming from,all they are wanting to do is stop everyone running around with a gun,not disarm the people.People can still register their firearm and keep it.Now before you say that I come from a no firearm country it is not true,I am not sure of Britons laws but after some idiot went mad in Australia and killed many people with an automatic weapon the government tightened up gun laws and banned automatic guns and cleaned up the unregistered guns. The farmers still have guns,the sport shooters still have guns, the security guards still have guns but the general public who don't need a gun strapped to their side don't unless of special circumstances.This makes sense to me,the less firearms the less likely someone would be shot.I get sick of reading the news in the US, another school ground massacre,they need to tighten up the laws there too.

[Mr Lee]

I have only read the article quickly but I don't see where you are coming from,all they are wanting to do is stop everyone running around with a gun,not disarm the people.People can still register their firearm and keep it.Now before you say that I come from a no firearm country it is not true,I am not sure of Britons laws but after some idiot went mad in Australia and killed many people with an automatic weapon the government tightened up gun laws and banned automatic guns and cleaned up the unregistered guns. The farmers still have guns,the sport shooters still have guns, the security guards still have guns but the general public who don't need a gun strapped to their side don't unless of special circumstances.This makes sense to me,the less firearms the less likely someone would be shot.I get sick of reading the news in the US, another school ground massacre,they need to tighten up the laws there too.

As I said before, the guns are not the problem, it is the sick idiots behind the guns who do those terrible things and most are under the influence of some form of drugs or had been. Again, how would you and everyone else who drinks responsibly like it if they decided to outlaw all forms of alcohol because some idiot gets drunk and kills a bunch of people with a car? It is basically the same thing, a car is in fact a deadly weapon when a drunk idiot is behind the wheel, a knife is a deadly weapon when an idiot decides to kill someone with it, a bat is a deadly weapon when in the hands of someone bent on killing someone. Did you guys read about the sick kids that beat homeless people to death with baseball bats here in the US just for the fun of it, should we now outlaw all baseball bats because a sick kid might use one to kill someone, no, we need to get those sick people help and we need to get to the bottom of what is making so many people in the US and in other places so violent. I personally think it is the rap music and the violent movies, but can we outlaw them because susceptible people will do violent things after listening to that music or watching a violent movie. Do all people rape after watching sex videos or just those who are mentally ill, it is all basically the same thing, you cannot outlaw the instrument that millions use properly because of the few who use it improperly. If we do, where will it end? Guns, alcohol, xrated movies, bats, cars, knives, tire irons, the list can be endless, and before you say it is the guns, there was a time when the US outlawed alcohol because it was evil and that never worked and only made criminals richer, banning guns would have the same effect IMO. I can make a shotgun from a couple pieces of pipe or a 22 cal zip gun from an antenna of an older type car, you cannot stop the criminals who want to have guns to kill, but you can put them in jail forever so they can never do it again. Recidivism is the number one cause of crime in the US and not guns.

[Jollygoodfellow]

I have only read the article quickly but I don't see where you are coming from,all they are wanting to do is stop everyone running around with a gun,not disarm the people.People can still register their firearm and keep it.Now before you say that I come from a no firearm country it is not true,I am not sure of Britons laws but after some idiot went mad in Australia and killed many people with an automatic weapon the government tightened up gun laws and banned automatic guns and cleaned up the unregistered guns. The farmers still have guns,the sport shooters still have guns, the security guards still have guns but the general public who don't need a gun strapped to their side don't unless of special circumstances.This makes sense to me,the less firearms the less likely someone would be shot.I get sick of reading the news in the US, another school ground massacre,they need to tighten up the laws there too.

As I said before, the guns are not the problem, it is the sick idiots behind the guns who do those terrible things and most are under the influence of some form of drugs or had been. Again, how would you and everyone else who drinks responsibly like it if they decided to outlaw all forms of alcohol because some idiot gets drunk and kills a bunch of people with a car? It is basically the same thing, a car is in fact a deadly weapon when a drunk idiot is behind the wheel, a knife is a deadly weapon when an idiot decides to kill someone with it, a bat is a deadly weapon when in the hands of someone bent on killing someone. Did you guys read about the sick kids that beat homeless people to death with baseball bats here in the US just for the fun of it, should we now outlaw all baseball bats because a sick kid might use one to kill someone, no, we need to get those sick people help and we need to get to the bottom of what is making so many people in the US and in other places so violent. I personally think it is the rap music and the violent movies, but can we outlaw them because susceptible people will do violent things after listening to that music or watching a violent movie. Do all people rape after watching sex videos or just those who are mentally ill, it is all basically the same thing, you cannot outlaw the instrument that millions use properly because of the few who use it improperly. If we do, where will it end? Guns, alcohol, xrated movies, bats, cars, knives, tire irons, the list can be endless, and before you say it is the guns, there was a time when the US outlawed alcohol because it was evil and that never worked and only made criminals richer, banning guns would have the same effect IMO. I can make a shotgun from a couple pieces of pipe or a 22 cal zip gun from an antenna of an older type car, you cannot stop the criminals who want to have guns to kill, but you can put them in jail forever so they can never do it again. Recidivism is the number one cause of crime in the US and not guns.

This debate will always go no where.There has to be some restrictions to have law and order,I'm sure you would agree to that. In your former work I am sure you would rather be confronted by a person with a bat rather than a gun,true?Why do we now install airbags and seat belts into cars,I think its to try to protect the people from them selves,accidents don't happen on there own do they?Why don't we allow everyone to have a machine gun on there shoulder strap?Now we are getting away from the original subject so I will head back to that,the Philippine government are trying to stop these illegal hand out of permits to carry a gun. That is the law,nothing new.Could you not see that it is best to have some control on guns such as registration of the gun to the owner,I am sure it would help police to identify the owner of a gun in a crime if it was left behind or could match the bullets used from it.Now back to the off topic.I don't feel naked when leaving home without a gun,the fear of not having a gun is just installed into you probably from a young age. :th_thsmilies-29057:

[Mik]

Gun purchase, ownership and carry should not be controlled, registered or regulated. If everyone carried guns there would be less crime and less need for police.