Military At Subic Bay

[OnMyWay]

As announced a year or 2 ago, the Philippine air force is finally gearing up for a move to Subic.  I'm not looking forward to that and it might impact my long term plans here.  Wait and see.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/philippines-station-warplanes-frigates-former-u-facing-disputed-210337252--finance.html

 

Philippines to station warplanes, frigates at former U.S. base facing disputed sea

 

By Manuel Mogato1 hour ago

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The USS Shiloh (CG-67), a U.S. Navy guided-missile cruiser, is docked at a port along Subic Bay, Zambales …

By Manuel Mogato

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MANILA (Reuters) - The Philippines will station new fighter jets and two frigates at the former U.S. naval facility in Subic Bay from early next year, officials said, the first time the massive installation has functioned as a military base in 23 years.

Using Subic Bay would allow the Philippine air force and navy to respond more effectively to Chinese moves in the disputed South China Sea, security experts said. Subic Bay's deep-water harbor lies on the western side of the main Philippine island of Luzon, opposite the South China Sea.

"The value of Subic as a military base was proven by the Americans. Chinese defense planners know that," said Rommel Banlaoi, a Philippine security expert.

Once one of the biggest U.S. naval facilities in the world, Subic Bay was shut in 1992 after the Philippine Senate terminated a bases agreement with Washington at the end of the Cold War.

Manila converted the facility, which was never home to the Philippine military, into an economic zone.

Defense Undersecretary Pio Lorenzo Batino told Reuters the Philippine military signed an agreement in May with the zone's operator, the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority, to use parts of the installation under a renewable 15-year lease.

U.S. warships have called regularly at Subic Bay since 2000, but only to dock during exercises with the Philippine military or to use its commercial facilities for repairs and resupply.

Officials said once Subic Bay was a military base again, the U.S. Navy could have much greater access to it under a year-old agreement that gives U.S. troops broad use of local military facilities, although that deal is on ice after it was challenged in the Philippine Supreme Court.

Using Subic would be the latest Philippine military move to combat China's maritime ambitions.

Besides beefing up security cooperation with the United States, Japan and Vietnam, the military plans to spend $20 billion over the next 13 years to modernize its armed forces, among the weakest in Southeast Asia.

China, which claims nearly all of the South China Sea, said it was aware of reports of the arms buildup.

"We hope that the Philippines does more to benefit regional peace and stability," the defense ministry said in a statement faxed to Reuters.

AIR WING RELOCATING

Two FA-50 light attack fighters made by Korea Aerospace Industries, the first among a dozen ordered last year, would be based at the former Cubi Naval Station in Subic Bay from early 2016, two Philippine generals told Reuters. The two planes arrive in December.

The full squadron of FA-50s would be based at Subic, as well as the 5th Fighter Wing, which would relocate from a rundown base in northern Luzon, said the generals, who declined to be identified.

Two naval frigates would be stationed at Subic Bay's Alava Port.

The generals cited proximity to the South China Sea and the ease in making the base operational as reasons for the move.

"There are existing facilities in Subic Bay. We need only to refurbish them," one officer said.

Since Subic Bay hasn't functioned as a military base for more than two decades, it was not among eight locations the Philippine armed forces has said the U.S. military could use under the stalled 2014 defense deal.

The Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement would allow the U.S. military to deploy at Philippine bases for longer periods than under existing accords as well as build barracks and facilities for logistics purposes.

The agreement has been frozen since left-wing politicians challenged its constitutionality last year. The Supreme Court is expected to issue a ruling in the coming months.

"(Subic) could be one of the locations ... under the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement," Batino said.

The Pentagon has said there were informal talks about Philippine base locations but that no plans would be implemented until the Supreme Court issues a ruling.

STRATEGIC SHOAL

Security experts noted that Subic Bay is only 145 nautical miles (270 km) from Scarborough Shoal, which China seized from Manila in 2012 after a three-month standoff with the Philippine navy.

The disputed Spratly islands, where China is building seven man-made islands, some with military facilities, lie further to the southwest of the shoal.

China might one day also turn Scarborough Shoal into an artificial island, which could make it harder for the Philippines to protect its 200-nautical mile (370 km) exclusive economic zone off Luzon, said Patrick Cronin, a regional expert at the Center for a New American Security in Washington.

"New Korean-built light fighter aircraft could reach Scarborough Shoal in just minutes, and maritime patrol aircraft or drones could eventually provide persistent coverage of Chinese movements in the area," Cronin said.

"A return to Subic Bay, this time led by the Philippine air force, would seem to be a prudent defensive response."

(Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in BEIJING; Writing by Dean Yates; Editing by Mike Collett-White)

 

[Gratefuled]

I honestly do not think the Philippines is dumb enough to provoke China into a confrontation. If the Philippines launches an assault on any Chinese vessel it would be committing suicide and China would have every right to defend itself with everything at its disposal.

This news is all saber rattling and nothing more.

[OnMyWay]

I honestly do not think the Philippines is dumb enough to provoke China into a confrontation. If the Philippines launches an assault on any Chinese vessel it would be committing suicide and China would have every right to defend itself with everything at its disposal.

This news is all saber rattling and nothing more.

 

I agree but it does make Subic a target if China were to ever decide to take action against PH.  As the article mentioned, now that Subic will be a PH military base, that opens it up for a stronger U.S. presence here.  If there is a U.S. presence, the likelihood of an attack goes way down.

 

I'm really not worried about that.  The main reason why it might change my plans is if they are having a lot of activity at the airport, it might be noisy.  I doubt it though.

[Gerald Glatt]

I honestly do not think the Philippines is dumb enough to provoke China into a confrontation. If the Philippines launches an assault on any Chinese vessel it would be committing suicide and China would have every right to defend itself with everything at its disposal.

 

IMHO it's China that is profiling and flexing,  Because a WWII leader, since disposed draws a line that violates international law the rest of the world quakes.  The disputed area is within Philippine waters,  the Philippines has a right to defend it's territory.  China claims it wants peace, a piece of the RP, a piece of Vietnam, a piece of Indonesia and Malaysia.  Seems like Hitler uniting Austria and Hungry bullying and taking small nations as Western Europe watched and drew line after line.  If the US and the EU say no and put their navies there China will have to retreat.  To not ddue so would bankrupt them as Wal-Mart and Apple leave.   

[chris49]

 

I honestly do not think the Philippines is dumb enough to provoke China into a confrontation. If the Philippines launches an assault on any Chinese vessel it would be committing suicide and China would have every right to defend itself with everything at its disposal.

This news is all saber rattling and nothing more.

 

I agree but it does make Subic a target if China were to ever decide to take action against PH.  As the article mentioned, now that Subic will be a PH military base, that opens it up for a stronger U.S. presence here.  If there is a U.S. presence, the likelihood of an attack goes way down.

 

I'm really not worried about that.  The main reason why it might change my plans is if they are having a lot of activity at the airport, it might be noisy.  I doubt it though.

 

 

It is cleverly orchestrated to increase the US presence while calling it a Philippines Military Base. And on the $20 billion quoted as the Philippines investment in it's military over 13 years, yeah maybe, maybe not also. Does the Philippines have $20 billion unless by factoring in US aide?

 

Bottom line here: the US is not happy with Guam being so far away from the Asian theater, so China provides a very good scapegoat for the Phils to invite the US back, without violating the constitution. And note this has happened under Noy Noy, whose beloved mother was loved by the US for being the US friendly successor to Marcos. (note also that it was Cory Aquino who eventually signed off on the base closures, but she was forced into it after a series of no confidence votes in the Senate)

 

The beneficiary is the USA, and the secondary benefactor is the Philippines economy, however, we will have a new President soon and the coruption levels currently suppressed may rise again.

 

As far as China targeting Subic. Nah, it's back to a Cold War situation, of course high tech this time. Currently China is in a position of incredible strength and superiority. That will not change, the main difference is the US will sit in between.

 

Another thing to consider is the enormous manpower and logistical capability of the US Military, as we slowly back out of Aghan and if ever activities v ISIS quiet down, there is a need to keep all the ships and equipment somewhere, not in continental USA. Subic and Clark allow that, so that's a big consideration for the future.

 

When I served in MAC, USAF Europe, 1977-82, height of the Cold War, we had 120, F111's, flying missions over Europe and sometimes only over the North Sea daily. A massive exercise all classified. But even the people in the know didn't know exactly why we were there and why we did that. Military strategy. The same thing can happen (we are in SAC now), over the China Sea.

[Jake]

 

I honestly do not think the Philippines is dumb enough to provoke China into a confrontation. If the Philippines launches an assault on any Chinese vessel it would be committing suicide and China would have every right to defend itself with everything at its disposal.

This news is all saber rattling and nothing more.

 

I agree but it does make Subic a target if China were to ever decide to take action against PH.  As the article mentioned, now that Subic will be a PH military base, that opens it up for a stronger U.S. presence here.  If there is a U.S. presence, the likelihood of an attack goes way down.

 

I'm really not worried about that.  The main reason why it might change my plans is if they are having a lot of activity at the airport, it might be noisy.  I doubt it though.

 

Hmmm.....at least a dozen or more being ordered to jump start the Philippine Air Force once again.  Let's see how they are maintained, probably two or more will be used for parts.....he, he. You may get some jet noise -- the Cubi Point runway is oriented from 8 o'clock to 2 o'clock for final approach or take off, depending on predominate winds at the time. Their flight path is about 2 miles south of you.  

 

 

USS SHILOH CG-67 is a Ticonderoga class missile cruiser.  A bad a$$ cruiser, using the latest SM-3 missiles to shoot down ballistic missiles crossing the big pond. They usually ride shotgun well ahead of the main battle group (carrier or amphibious group).  Unfortunately, the US Navy is spread quite thin these days.  I expect a multi theater war at sea scenario with that NK psycho leader firing the 1st shot.  And then WalFart will go out of business.....

 

Respectfully -- Jake 

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jake

[jon1]

Their flight path is about 2 miles south of you.  

 

Yeah thanks Jake for reminding me. That means they will be flying over my house on NE take offs. Recently made aware of that by C-17s a month or so ago taking off and passing over my house at 3000ft. It doesn't bother me but a few squadrons might. On the flip side, it is reassuring knowing that someone is there defending you which you do not have now.

[Jake]

 

Their flight path is about 2 miles south of you.  

 

Yeah thanks Jake for reminding me. That means they will be flying over my house on NE take offs. Recently made aware of that by C-17s a month or so ago taking off and passing over my house at 3000ft. It doesn't bother me but a few squadrons might. On the flip side, it is reassuring knowing that someone is there defending you which you do not have now.

 

Hey Jon,

 

If the bubble goes up in the South China Sea region, I just hope you have time enough to bend over kiss your butt goodbye.  It's an unlikely scenario but can anyone predict what that NK psycho would do next.  His missiles are getting better -- only 1800 miles to Luzon.  

 

However, there should be an evacuation plan for US nationals and families to get out of dodge quickly via heavy transports from Cubi Point.  Just make sure you take all your secret recipes of making some fine beer......he, he.

 

Thirsty Jake

[jon1]

 

 

Their flight path is about 2 miles south of you.  

 

Yeah thanks Jake for reminding me. That means they will be flying over my house on NE take offs. Recently made aware of that by C-17s a month or so ago taking off and passing over my house at 3000ft. It doesn't bother me but a few squadrons might. On the flip side, it is reassuring knowing that someone is there defending you which you do not have now.

 

Hey Jon,

 

If the bubble goes up in the South China Sea region, I just hope you have time enough to bend over kiss your butt goodbye.  It's an unlikely scenario but can anyone predict what that NK psycho would do next.  His missiles are getting better -- only 1800 miles to Luzon.  

 

However, there should be an evacuation plan for US nationals and families to get out of dodge quickly via heavy transports from Cubi Point.  Just make sure you take all your secret recipes of making some fine beer......he, he.

 

Thirsty Jake

 

Nah they won't help you as our DoS is a POS! hahaha

 

I think that if that crap ever hit the fan I would end up as a coastwatcher.....

 

I am using my secret recipes of Mango wine to maintain local allegiance to said fermenter! :D 

[Jake]

 

 

 

Their flight path is about 2 miles south of you.  

 

Yeah thanks Jake for reminding me. That means they will be flying over my house on NE take offs. Recently made aware of that by C-17s a month or so ago taking off and passing over my house at 3000ft. It doesn't bother me but a few squadrons might. On the flip side, it is reassuring knowing that someone is there defending you which you do not have now.

 

Hey Jon,

 

If the bubble goes up in the South China Sea region, I just hope you have time enough to bend over kiss your butt goodbye.  It's an unlikely scenario but can anyone predict what that NK psycho would do next.  His missiles are getting better -- only 1800 miles to Luzon.  

 

However, there should be an evacuation plan for US nationals and families to get out of dodge quickly via heavy transports from Cubi Point.  Just make sure you take all your secret recipes of making some fine beer......he, he.

 

Thirsty Jake

 

Nah they won't help you as our DoS is a POS! hahaha

 

I think that if that crap ever hit the fan I would end up as a coastwatcher.....

 

I am using my secret recipes of Mango wine to maintain local allegiance to said fermenter! :D

 

Hey Jon,

 

As a coastwatcher, with your fellow Aussie intelligence officers doing covert surveillance operations, it would be right up your alley.  I could remember while the USN was there, SERE training was conducted in the jungles off Cubi Point.  The indigenous people called Negritos ran that place, training US pilots how to survive the jungle.  The US Navy also relied on the Negritos to guard the back door of Subic against the HUKS and other rebels. They did it quite well using only primitive handmade weapons: 

I'm sure you will make many friends with your Mango wine.....he, he.