Is A Nations Military (Or Police Force) A Snapshot Of Its Society?

[scott h]

I saw this the other day, and our "transgender" topic brought it to mind.

 

When I read the article my first thought was, "what a bunch of whiners" They take the money, the benefits, the training but at the first sign of trouble or set back they say "I quit!"

 

These guys were the "elite" which I bet means they got more pay, better training, better equipment, better food, probably housing for the families. But something goes wrong? hmmm

 

Now I have served alongside of Brits, Canadians, Aussies, New Zealanders, Germans, Ukrainians even a few Portagesse and their reaction to a major set back like what happened would have been: "MAN, THEY GONNA PAY!!" not "I have done enough"

 

JGF if this is to out there or sensitive, please delete :cheersty:

 

 

 

MANILA, Philippines – They survived a “suicide mission” once and they have no plans of risking their lives again.

Almost 6 months after close to 400 Philippine National Police (PNP) Special Action Force (SAF) troopers entered the treacherous terrain of Mamasapano in Maguindanao, a majority of survivors from the elite company that served as the main striking force have laid down their commando uniforms. (READ: Cheat sheet: The truths and lies of Mamasapano)

Members of the 84th Special Action Company (SAC) or the “Seaborne” have since requested to be transferred to different units within the PNP, SAF chief Director Moro Lazo told Rappler in a chance interview on Thursday, July 16.

“[They are now] outside of SAF already. [Majority] requested to be moved,” said Lazo.

“Of course, their primary reason is that they would not like to push their luck too far. Kung baga, meron silang: okay na, kung baga, tama na rin,” added Lazo. (They’re probably thinking: we’re okay, we’ve done enough.)

The 84th SAC is the PNP’s “elite of the elite.” It’s the company that is best-trained and best-equipped within SAF, the PNP’s elite striking force.

Elite commandos who typically undergo training from their US counterparts, the Seaborne were tasked to be the lead striking force during “Oplan Exodus,” a January 25 SAF operation intended to neutralize Indonesian terrorist Zulkifli bin Hir (alias “Marwan”) and Filipino bomb maker Abdul Basit Usman.

“Oplan Exodus” is one of the bloodiest operations in the PNP’s 24-year history to date. Forty-four SAF troopers were killed in the fields of Mamasapano, in what turned out to be a botched, ill-planned operation. At least 3 civilians and up to 18 Muslim rebels were also killed as a result of the operation. (READ: Oplan Exodus defective, 'heavily influenced by Napeñas')

It was the Seaborne who braved the swift waters of barangay Tukanalipao’s rivers with the aim of either arresting or killing the two terrorists.

But things would not go according to plan the morning of January 25. Unaccustomed to Mamasapano’s terrain and weighed down by their equipment, the Seaborne arrived at the target zone hours later than scheduled.

After killing Marwan, the troopers found themselves in intense and close-range skirmishes with Marwan and Usman’s men.

The company assigned to be their main back-up, the 55th SAC, was also engaged a few kilometers away, but with Muslim rebels who call Mamasapano home. Local fights, coupled with the terrain, which provided no cover and barely any concealment, were no match to the SAF troopers.

All but one of the 36 members of the 55th SAC died during the firefight, while the Seaborne lost 9 of its men.

Lazo declined to say exactly how many of the Seaborne asked to be moved out of SAF. He did say, however, that they were replaced right away.

“We were able to replenish them, but of course, hindi pa naman full strength pero siguro (we’re not yet at full-strength but it's) almost enough,” he said. – Rappler.com

[Dave Hounddriver]

This is a culture of "Me first, then you".  It doesn't surprise me that they want to quit.  They probably signed up to be police thinking it was easy money taking bribes and looking the other way and never actually realized that the Muslims are willing to die or kill others for their beliefs.  Whatever else we think of Muslims we have to admit they are committed to their beliefs.

[Call me bubba]

in response to your 1st question. YES ,,in most countries the police and military are snap shot or representative of ones society... is a equalizer to have a fair balance

 

 

These guys were the "elite" which I bet means they got more pay, better training, better equipment, better food, probably housing for the families. But something goes wrong? hmmm

 

why are they quiting or asking for transfer?

 #1 look at the leadership and the roles that the leadership played in this event...

 

 like a Forum owner and his forum support  or members. if you dont like my way, you can leave...

 

#2. benefits, money was raised to support the FALLEN MEN families and children , where is that money ???

has it been FULLY DISPERSED ?

 in most civilized countries men who lay down their lives for their country, the family will have some post death support. where is this support?

are these men "skirting" the danger that they once wanted to FIGHT? who really knows...

 

 IN MY OPINION it comes down to FAMILY FIRST. lack of support or trust in the LEADERSHIP.

[Gratefuled]

It appears that the Philippines has a problem within a problem. Poor leadership starting at the top ( President Aquino ) down to its commanders ( military leaders) to its PNP who now does not want to be forced into more suicide missions.

So, it appears that the Muslim insurgents have control.

With this in mind, how much more control will they have once the BBL is approved. A little is a lot when its in the right spot.

[Thomas]

Poor leadership starting at the top ( President Aquino ) down to its commanders ( military leaders) to its PNP who now does not want to be forced into more suicide missions.

Yes. And not only the Philippines.

 

Anyone chosing a military work are asumed to understand it's risky

BUT it isn't fair to expect they will risk their lifes MUCH EXTRA because of STUPID LEADERS *   :th_unfair:

 

There are several examples of very stupid leaders EXTRA MANY within the public sector including the military

and when it's military stupid misstakes then it's EXTRA SERIOUS because they are DEADLY,

while most other stupid misstakes by public leaders mostly just end up in inconviniences and wasted money...

 

*For instance:

/England lost the Krim war, although they had better equipment - except they hadn't tools to open the ammunition boxes with :1 (103): :hystery:

/When the repeter rifles (as e g Winchester) were invented and at the market, then many military leaders said NO to get such "because then can our soldiers shoot many more shots and ammunition cost much money"  !!!   :1 (103): :1 (103): :1 (103):

/The above are historical examples, but there are many soldiers killed by fire from the OWN side by STUPID handling many times later too...

[Dave Hounddriver]

Anyone chosing a military work are asumed to understand it's risky

 

But they were

 

Philippine National Police (PNP)

[chris49]

It appears that the Philippines has a problem within a problem. Poor leadership starting at the top ( President Aquino ) down to its commanders ( military leaders) to its PNP who now does not want to be forced into more suicide missions.

So, it appears that the Muslim insurgents have control.

With this in mind, how much more control will they have once the BBL is approved. A little is a lot when its in the right spot.

 

No, that's biased even if it has elements of truth. Leadership at the top has been much better under Noy Noy.

 

One problem I see is the reporting of the response from the troops. In any modern military there should be some troop rotation in and out of high risk areas. Don't tell me you send the same troops back on a mission where the collegues have been slaughtered. There would be a rotation that would not bear mention in the press.

 

On poor military leadership, even if I suspect that, I have no way to verify that.

[earthdome]

This is a culture of "Me first, then you".  It doesn't surprise me that they want to quit.  They probably signed up to be police thinking it was easy money taking bribes and looking the other way and never actually realized that the Muslims are willing to die or kill others for their beliefs.  Whatever else we think of Muslims we have to admit they are committed to their beliefs.

 

In this case the muslims were defending their home turf. I think it more likely that they were willing to kill or die because that is where they live rather than for their beliefs.

[Tukaram (Tim)]

You know it is risky when you join - but you expect some support.  These guys got no support from the government or their command structure.  They may have just realized that no one above them gives a crap about them.  The president is so intent on passing the BBL at all cost there was no public censure even - not to speak of any retribution.    I honestly can't blame them....

[Old55]

Yes, completely agree, leadership. I'm sure there is much more to the story.