Post Dated Checks

[Bellacissa]

I'm beginning the online hunt to find the condo building that we want to rent a place in.  A portion of the listings say that they require post dated checks for the length of the rental term.

 

So, this newbie has a couple of questions:

1. Is this a common practice among reputable owners and leasing companies?  It's a new concept to me, but having never rented in Phils, it might just be a lack of knowledge on my part.  Most places in Thailand just want two months rent and a deposit up front for a one year lease.
2. My plan was to get a local savings account after I do my first immigration extension and get my ACR card.  Since it takes roughly three months (based on the posts here) to get the card after you first come over, I won't have checks right away, if at all.  Is there another way around the pdc requirement?  Like an auto-debit from my US checking account or something?  If not, I'll likely just skip those listings that require it altogether.  I mean, I have checks drawn on my US checking account, but I can't imagine they'd accept those.

I did a search on the forums, but didn't quite find my answers, so if anyone has any insight, I'd be appreciative.

[Dave Hounddriver]

Is this a common practice among reputable owners and leasing companies?

 

Its a very common practice to ask for post dated checks.  But I have never given them.  I can only speak from my own experience but in each case I have been asked I tell the landlord or agent that I only use a savings account and then I wave the cash for first and last months rent under their nose.  Usually I get stuck having to add a third month's rent for 'security deposit' but with that much cash they have always let the post dated check requirement slide. YMMV

[Mike S]

In most countries post dated checks are not considered legal tender but here in the Phils they like them for some reason .... I suppose if you skipped out they can sue you as they have the evidence ..... like Dave I have been asked but always refuse ..... gave up a really nice house for doing so but that's life ....

:cheersty:

[Thomas]

In most countries post dated checks are not considered legal tender but here in the Phils they like them for some reason ...

Yes.

In Phils it's legal as long as they don't bounce at the date they have written at them.

[Mike J]

I suppose if you skipped out they can sue you as they have the evidence

 

For those not familiar with Philippine law, bouncing a check here falls under the estafa laws and is a serious crime.  The check(s) required to rent a condo would be of sufficient size that a person could spend years in prison for bouncing even a single check.  The penalties listed at the bottom of the law use legal terms, but correspond as follows:

 

1st. The penalty of reclusion temporal if the amount of the fraud is over 12,000 pesos but not exceed 22,000 pesos, and if such amount exceeds the latter sum, the penalty provided in this paragraph shall be imposed in its maximum period, adding one year for each additional 10,000 pesos but the total penalty which may be imposed shall in no case exceed thirty years. In such cases, and in connection with the accessory penalties which may be imposed under the Revised Penal Code, the penalty shall be termed reclusion perpetua; 

2nd. The penalty of prision mayor in its maximum period, if the amount of the fraud is over 6,000 pesos but does not exceed 12,000 pesos; 

3rd. The penalty of prision mayor in its medium period, if such amount is over 200 pesos but does not exceed 6,000 pesos; and, 

4th. By prision mayor in its maximum period, if such amount does not exceed 200 pesos. 

Reclusion Temporal is 12 yrs. and 1 day to 20 yrs. 
Prision Mayor is 6 yrs. and 1 day to 12 yrs. 

For Estafa Reclusion Perpetua is 30 yrs.   :th_hu:

 

 

PRESIDENTIAL DECREE No. 818 October 22, 1975

 

AMENDING ARTICLE 315 OF THE REVISED PENAL CODE BY INCREASING THE PENALTIES FOR ESTAFA COMMITTED BY MEANS OF BOUNCING CHECKS

 

WHEREAS, reports received of late indicate an upsurge of estafa (swindling) cases committed by means of bouncing checks;

 

WHEREAS, if not checked at once, these criminal acts would erode the people's confidence in the use of negotiable instruments as a medium of commercial transaction and consequently result in the retardation of trade and commerce and the undermining of the banking system of the country;

 

WHEREAS, it is vitally necessary to arrest and curb the rise in this kind of estafa cases by increasing the existing penalties provided therefor;

 

NOW, THEREFORE, I, FERDINAND E. MARCOS, President of the Philippines, by virtue of the powers in me vested by the Constitution, do hereby decree as part of the law of the land the following amendment to Article 315 of the Revised Penal Code:

 

Section 1. Any person who shall defraud another by means of false pretenses or fraudulent acts as defined in paragraph 2(d) of Article 315 of the Revised Penal Code, as amended by Republic Act No. 4885, shall be punished by:

 

1st. The penalty of reclusion temporal if the amount of the fraud is over 12,000 pesos but not exceed 22,000 pesos, and if such amount exceeds the latter sum, the penalty provided in this paragraph shall be imposed in its maximum period, adding one year for each additional 10,000 pesos but the total penalty which may be imposed shall in no case exceed thirty years. In such cases, and in connection with the accessory penalties which may be imposed under the Revised Penal Code, the penalty shall be termed reclusion perpetua;

 

2nd. The penalty of prision mayor in its maximum period, if the amount of the fraud is over 6,000 pesos but does not exceed 12,000 pesos;

 

3rd. The penalty of prision mayor in its medium period, if such amount is over 200 pesos but does not exceed 6,000 pesos; and,

 

4th. By prision mayor in its maximum period, if such amount does not exceed 200 pesos.

 

Sec. 2. This decree shall take effect immediately.

 

DONE in the City of Manila, this 22nd day of October, in the year of Our Lord, nineteen hundred and seventy-five.

[Gratefuled]

My suggestion.

If you ever have the need to issue post dated check or checks you can always protect yourself if something goes wrong.

 

Just go to your Philippine bank and do a "stop payment" on the check or checks. You wil be charged a fee for every check, no doubt but you wil be protected. Just make sure you get a statement from the bank.

Yes, sometimes you might get burnt if you do not protect yourself first.

[Dave Hounddriver]

bouncing a check here falls under the estafa laws and is a serious crime.

 

Perhaps if it is a foreigner who is being charged with estafa then they might throw him in jail.  On the other hand, me and a bunch of fellow victims went to the NBI office in Cebu and had a chat with the head guy about making an estafa charge against a lady who had issued us a lot of post dated cheques in an investment scheme/scam.  He refused to even consider charging her and said we should be more concerned with hiring a lawyer and working it out in a civil way.  I suspect they would take the same dim view of having their time wasted over a bounced check on a lease payment but if that helps keep people honest then the landlords will keep insisting on that.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Dave Hounddriver

[Thomas]

 

bouncing a check here falls under the estafa laws and is a serious crime.

 

Perhaps if it is a foreigner who is being charged with estafa then they might throw him in jail.  On the other hand, me and a bunch of fellow victims went to the NBI office in Cebu and had a chat with the head guy about making an estafa charge against a lady who had issued us a lot of post dated cheques in an investment scheme/scam.  He refused to even consider charging her and said we should be more concerned with hiring a lawyer and working it out in a civil way.  I suspect they would take the same dim view of having their time wasted over a bounced check on a lease payment but if that helps keep people honest then the landlords will keep insisting on that.

In Phils it's common institutions and officials DON'T file estafa even for big crimes, demanding the VICTIM to file estafa and FINANCE trying to stop the criminals!!!   That princip was made by the Spainards as well as the criminals can PAY the victims LEGALY to get rid of filed estafa. (As in a mango investment scam case.) The Spainards did such laws to PROTECT THE RICH WITH POWER against the weak...  :bash:    Many rich Filipinos GET AWAY with crimes against poor Filipinos too by many POOR DON'T AFFORD to file estafa...   :th_unfair:  That's at least for some types of hard crimes too where the officials had done it FOR FREE in our home countries...

[Steve & Myrlita]

Perhaps if it is a foreigner who is being charged with estafa then they might throw him in jail. On the other hand, me and a bunch of fellow victims went to the NBI office in Cebu and had a chat with the head guy about making an estafa charge against a lady who had issued us a lot of post dated cheques in an investment scheme/scam. He refused to even consider charging her and said we should be more concerned with hiring a lawyer and working it out in a civil way. I suspect they would take the same dim view of having their time wasted over a bounced check on a lease payment but if that helps keep people honest then the landlords will keep insisting on that.

It was his polite round about face saving way of letting you know that foreigners can't charge a Filipino with a crime here.

[Bellacissa]

Thanks, everyone.  I think I'm just going to try to avoid having to give out PDC altogether.  It seems like more of a risk than I'm willing to take.  Not to mention that I won't have checks to give until long after we move in anyway.