Political Thuggery Filipino Style

[TheMason]

I don't think it will matter what he does, its not likely to end well for him. Even if he wins some sort of court judgement after 10 years in court, does he really think life will just go on as normal for him and his wife? Even if no physical harm befalls them, they will very likely be shunned and ostracized by the community. Not too many locals are going to associate with a Kano and his wife that are causing trouble for the local authorities. What good is it being right if you have no friends or social standing and are ostracized by your community?While I sympathize with the guy and his wife for what they're dealing with, I also think he was pretty foolish to think he could just come into town, buy a boat, and start fishing the waters in competition with the locals. His approach to his business doesn't speak well about his knowledge of how things work in the Philippines. Even a small amount of research would have shown him that sex tourists and pensioners are welcomed with open arms, but those looking to put down roots and earn a living locally aren't particulary welcome in the Philippines.

[Mik]

This local village chief makes his own laws. Be careful.

[mike]

I don't think it will matter what he does, its not likely to end well for him. Even if he wins some sort of court judgement after 10 years in court, does he really think life will just go on as normal for him and his wife? Even if no physical harm befalls them, they will very likely be shunned and ostracized by the community. Not too many locals are going to associate with a Kano and his wife that are causing trouble for the local authorities. What good is it being right if you have no friends or social standing and are ostracized by your community?While I sympathize with the guy and his wife for what they're dealing with, I also think he was pretty foolish to think he could just come into town, buy a boat, and start fishing the waters in competition with the locals. His approach to his business doesn't speak well about his knowledge of how things work in the Philippines. Even a small amount of research would have shown him that sex tourists and pensioners are welcomed with open arms, but those looking to put down roots and earn a living locally aren't particulary welcome in the Philippines.

Ostrazied!! ?? quite the opposite the place they live welcomes them no problem. The place they fished may not. Then again the attorney in the place they fished cannot wait to prosecute the case. The vice mayor has a worse than bad reputation, and named last year in the murder of a local journalist.Goldstar are running with this, so I suspect they are well and truly on side. Some are suggesting that the link cannot be opened unless outside of the Philippines...wonder why lolPersonaly I am sick and tired of reading articles by foreigners condemning other foreigners for being stupid, dumb and plain wrong for running legal businesses legally. For those that do this you may wish to consider if you are going to be part of the solution to the our adopted home or continue to be supportive of its problems.Mike

[TheMason]

Personaly I am sick and tired of reading articles by foreigners condemning other foreigners for being stupid, dumb and plain wrong for running legal businesses legally. For those that do this you may wish to consider if you are going to be part of the solution to the our adopted home or continue to be supportive of its problems.Mike

As a foreigner and non-citizen, I do not think it is my place or my responsibility to be a part of the solution. To the contrary, I firmly believe it is my responsibility to steer clear of attempting to change the way things are here. If the Filipino people do not feel strongly enough to stand up and demand change, why should I do it for them? The last time I checked, the Philippines was a democracy with a government chosen by its citizens. If Filipinos are willing to accept things the way they are, so am I. If Filipinos think they have a local warlord instead of a mayor, it is their responsibility to challenge him and fix the problem, not mine. I view life in the Philippines as a take it or leave it proposition. There are aspects of life here I do not like. I learn to deal with them the best I can or just chalk them up as things I dislike about the Philippines. If the negatives outweigh the positives of living here, I'll go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing me or any other foreigner to live here. Since I choose to make this my home, with full knowledge of what its like here, I choose to either accept it or go elsewhere. My responsibility is to live within the framework of the society the Filipino people have chosen and built. If I can't do that, I should leave. Personally, I am sick and tired of reading articles by foreigners assuming a responsibility to fix the problems here. Filipinos are not children that need the guidance or intervention of foreigners to bring about change in their country. If a solution is needed, it is up to Filipinos to identify and implement a solution.

[Mr Lee]

Just remember, everyone in the US voted for change and look at what they ended up with, pocket change. OK, I just had to lighten that up a little. I agree that it is up to the Filipinos to change things if they want to, but I also think we as foreigner with some experiences in a first world country might be able to give them some input, and no not tell them how to do it because IMO it is not for us to do.I sure do not like what happened to Randy Stirm and his wife, but I also know that ignorance of the laws or rules is no excuse for doing something which may go against them. I think both sides were wrong and they should have let him off with a warning and not gone beyond that. Two wrongs do not make a right.

[mike]

Just remember, everyone in the US voted for change and look at what they ended up with, pocket change. OK, I just had to lighten that up a little. I agree that it is up to the Filipinos to change things if they want to, but I also think we as foreigner with some experiences in a first world country might be able to give them some input, and no not tell them how to do it because IMO it is not for us to do.I sure do not like what happened to Randy Stirm and his wife, but I also know that ignorance of the laws or rules is no excuse for doing something which may go against them. I think both sides were wrong and they should have let him off with a warning and not gone beyond that. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Never could understand why people who make somewhere their home have family pay taxes feel that they have no right to voice an opinion. For those that live that way and hide in a hole they will reap what is best for them. Those who stand up and get counted may reap something else, they know that they do not need to be told they are dumb or stupid for expecting and demanding rule of law applies. Some forget that our children are growing up as Philippinos, what example are we willing to set.There was only one wrong that was the act of thuggery unless any one else knows for sure that the Stirms did something wrong. Clear the mayor and friends do not want this to go to trial, hence the direct death threats.

[Mr Lee]

Mike, as you know you are living in the Philippines and it will be a long time if ever before expats get any rights and with life so cheap, unfortunately the only thing that will probably follow all this is death for someone. So are you saying that we do not have to follow the rules or laws of the Philippines because we feel they are unjust? Fact is that the waters are pretty well fished out. I have a relative who is a fisherman on the west coast of Cebu and has to go pretty far out to try to catch enough fish to survive and many times he and those who work with him come home with no fish, so if there are no rules then the waters will be even more fished out and those with the money to buy better equipment will stomp on those who have to do it the old fashioned way because they are poor. Sorry but I do not see a happy ending to all this and I suspect that if you did not take care of the police and public officials who frequent your business then you too would be out of business, but that is just my guess....So while you are saying we should fight back, do you refuse to pay off or just do what you have to in order to survive? Please don't answer that! I sure would hate to be responsible for something happening to you or your business. It is all going to be survival of the fittest and those who play ball. I still say that the Philippines is a great country to retire in with an income from back home but a lousy place to try to run a business and since I would probably be more like Mr. Stirm, I will never go into any business in the Philippines because either I or my wife might end up dead. added to better clarify my meaning. Mike you are a much better man than I could ever be to be able to run a business in the Philippines. :lmao: I give you a lot of credit for being able to put up with all the bs. Follow upGunmen stop Stirm, threaten to kill wifeARMED men yesterday threatened the American who spoke out against the alleged abuses of government people in Gingoog city.The men, riding a black Honda XRM motorcycle, stopped Randy Stirm near the Kimaya Bridge in Jasaan town at around 7:55 am, showed a police blotter signed by PO3 Elesio Junsay and Senior Insp. Lorenzon Larot.http://www.goldstardailynews.com/content.php?id=5495

Edited August 26, 2009 by Mr. Lee

[Hoz]

If the boat was fishing illegally, paperwork or not the local government decided to take action. The American got his tit caught in a wringer. now he's begging on You Tube for donations to rebuild his boat. Time will tell, but embarrasing local "officials" is no way to make friends in the Philippines. He brags he has lived in the Philippines for such a long time, yet he knows nothing about "Ulaw" or "Hiya"?. How about Pakikisama? PAKIKISAMA (GETTING ALONG WITH OTHERS). Since it is important that no one in the group should suffer HIYA, Filipino culture stresses getting along with others. A Filipino must always be careful in his words and deeds not to offend members of his community. Of course, this is the exact opposite of American culture in which problems must be confronted face on in order to be resolved.

[mike]

If the boat was fishing illegally, paperwork or not the local government decided to take action. The American got his tit caught in a wringer. now he's begging on You Tube for donations to rebuild his boat. Time will tell, but embarrasing local "officials" is no way to make friends in the Philippines. He brags he has lived in the Philippines for such a long time, yet he knows nothing about "Ulaw" or "Hiya"?. How about Pakikisama? PAKIKISAMA (GETTING ALONG WITH OTHERS). Since it is important that no one in the group should suffer HIYA, Filipino culture stresses getting along with others. A Filipino must always be careful in his words and deeds not to offend members of his community. Of course, this is the exact opposite of American culture in which problems must be confronted face on in order to be resolved.

Reality is that both mayor and vice mayor are in deep sh&t they are begging to settle ot of court or face severe sanctions involving lock up timethe attorney representing the stirms is doing so free of charge as he is disgusted and ashamed at the breach of law by those responsible.the naval crew has been recalled to manila, Court martial proceedings may result. they admitted that the vice mayor ordered then to blow the boat out of the water. this was a philipino boat manned wholly by philipinos, not a nasty horrible foreigner. the navy ordered all the fishing boat crew into the water at gun point, no life vests or enquiry on swimming ability. the crew faced down the machine guns and said no.no body is going to die. the vice mayor mayor who denied he was present was asked by the Goldstar why he says that when he is on video seen and heard managing the illegal action. vice mayor hung up and is now in process of trying to worm his way to a resolution that will not involve prison time why because the stirms did go public and filmed this. all their permits are in order and legal.The stirms did nothing wrong. they were victims of organized crime and have prevailed.they are a very brave and resourceful couple. i have had the pleasure of meeting them both, they have my respect for the courage they have shown and the tenacity to not let go despite the grave threats.all it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing, even worse is when good people blame the innocent. perhaps food for thought

[mike]

Mike, as you know you are living in the Philippines and it will be a long time if ever before expats get any rights and with life so cheap, unfortunately the only thing that will probably follow all this is death for someone. So are you saying that we do not have to follow the rules or laws of the Philippines because we feel they are unjust? Fact is that the waters are pretty well fished out. I have a relative who is a fisherman on the west coast of Cebu and has to go pretty far out to try to catch enough fish to survive and many times he and those who work with him come home with no fish, so if there are no rules then the waters will be even more fished out and those with the money to buy better equipment will stomp on those who have to do it the old fashioned way because they are poor. Sorry but I do not see a happy ending to all this and I suspect that if you did not take care of the police and public officials who frequent your business then you too would be out of business, but that is just my guess....So while you are saying we should fight back, do you refuse to pay off or just do what you have to in order to survive? Please don't answer that! I sure would hate to be responsible for something happening to you or your business. It is all going to be survival of the fittest and those who play ball. I still say that the Philippines is a great country to retire in with an income from back home but a lousy place to try to run a business and since I would probably be more like Mr. Stirm, I will never go into any business in the Philippines because either I or my wife might end up dead. added to better clarify my meaning. Mike you are a much better man than I could ever be to be able to run a business in the Philippines. :SugarwareZ-037: I give you a lot of credit for being able to put up with all the bs. Follow upGunmen stop Stirm, threaten to kill wifeARMED men yesterday threatened the American who spoke out against the alleged abuses of government people in Gingoog city.The men, riding a black Honda XRM motorcycle, stopped Randy Stirm near the Kimaya Bridge in Jasaan town at around 7:55 am, showed a police blotter signed by PO3 Elesio Junsay and Senior Insp. Lorenzon Larot.http://www.goldstardailynews.com/content.php?id=5495

i have refused to pay anyone espite immense pressure from badge carriers to do soresult CIDG are confined to barracks, 5 have administration charges against them and face dismissali will continue trading and respecting the law. i have never said we should ignore laws if we feel they are unjust, that is plain dumb.i am saying if you dance with the devil expect to get burned.i refused despite your claim otherwise to get involved with paying anyone off. i went very public in making damn sure it would not happen. goldstar daily carried the article courtesy of Herbi Gomez who also coverd the fishing incident.i will close my business before i pay 1 peso to anyone. hope the above clears that up for youif you are not prepared to stand up for yourself, then we have no right to expect anyone else to help.so I have replied because i regard your comments as ignorant, crass and totally unwarranted for a public forum.