Another Air Con Topic

[OnMyWay]

I wasn't quite sure where to put this topic so I will put it in Living Costs where Jack had his air con topic.  There is also a very informative old thread on air con:

 

http://www.philippines-expats.com/topic/15598-aircon-question/

 

which I read end to end.  BTW, Bruce is my air con guy in Florida.  Good work for a very fair price.  There are a lot air con scammers in Florida so it is nice to have somebody you can trust.

 

It is highly likely I will close a deal on long term lease house here on the base.  It has air con in the 3 BR but not in the huge open living area.  I'm trying educate myself on what I will need for that large space.

 

Before I read Jack's thread I did not know there was such a thing as a split system with with more than one indoor outlet run by a single outdoor unit.  I thought I would ask about these multi-zone or multi-head units and see if anyone knows much about them.

 

(Examples here on Home Depot web site but most of these are heaters too):

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Coolers-Air-Conditioners-Ductless-Mini-Splits/Dual-Zone/Quad-Zone-or-More/N-5yc1vZc4m1Z2bctxqZ1z0r0qsZ1z0y62uZ1z0y62v?NCNI-5

 

1.  I assume they are available in PH?  I wouldn't know if I have seen one because you would not notice a setup like this.

2.  Does anyone have one?

3.  They have individual controls for each indoor air handler.  Does the variable speed compressor adjust as needed for the load required from each AH?  How does that work out for energy usage.  Better or worse than individual splits?

4.  In theory, it seems like the initial cost to purchase should be lower.  E.g., if I bought one that would have two AH in my living area and then one AH in a bedroom. that would cheaper than buying 3 smaller compressors and 3 AH?

 

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Jack Peterson]

1.  I assume they are available in PH?

 

 

Yes they are available but can be expensive, Offices use them which can take you into the bigger outside equipment Bracket from Domestic to Commercial use. We were Advised against this as there would be too big a run on the Pipework require ( depending on the position of the 2 indoor units.

 Daikin have just about most of the Stuff you can buy Worldwide here but the Ones you are talking, seem to be Mitsubishi/ Carrier & Lennox  Chances are you will end up with this type of outside unit.

 

OR 

About all I can tell you my friend.

 

Jack :)

[Jack Peterson]

AH OK I think I have found something you may like to read OMW

 

http://www.daikin.com/products/ac/lineup/split_multi_split/

 

Jack :thumbsup:

[OnMyWay]

AH OK I think I have found something you may like to read OMW

 

http://www.daikin.com/products/ac/lineup/split_multi_split/

 

Jack :thumbsup:

 

I guess it vary by unique unit, but I wonder what the longest pipe run is?  On the Home Depot site, I saw that GREE sells the pipes separately in 15, 25 and 50 ft. lengths, so I guess some of them handle up to 50 ft.  What did they tell you?  If I put a multi on the side of my house (best place) I think the runs to the two AH in my living area would be somewhere between 30 and 50 ft.

[Jack Peterson]

 

AH OK I think I have found something you may like to read OMW

 

http://www.daikin.com/products/ac/lineup/split_multi_split/

 

Jack :thumbsup:

 

I guess it vary by unique unit, but I wonder what the longest pipe run is?  On the Home Depot site, I saw that GREE sells the pipes separately in 15, 25 and 50 ft. lengths, so I guess some of them handle up to 50 ft.  What did they tell you?  If I put a multi on the side of my house (best place) I think the runs to the two AH in my living area would be somewhere between 30 and 50 ft.

 

 

Well we did not go too far into it as my wife was a little worried by all this but as we only have 1 outside wall in the Sala the run to the other unit was something like 60+ feet but it all had to go up into the roof which all made the installation so Expensive. No direct Area for the piping. (The pipe work seems the problem) If the pull is too long I guess you will need a Larger outside unit. Then it may get Expensive.

So we went for the 3 hp and it works well as I have said.

 

jack  :)

 

servicing and any problems just seemed to outwiegh the way we did in the End.

[Jack Peterson]

Having said all I have before, it will still mean that IF you do have 2 heads ( Inverters) and turn one off, the other will Still try and Cool the whole Area and this could have a detrimental effect on the one doing the bulk of the Work. Azon reminded me of this a short time ago. 

Again OMW this was a deciding factor in the End.

Seems the system you are looking into is ok for separate closed rooms but I feel this is why it was not recommended for a large open Area.

 

Jack :thumbsup:

[OnMyWay]

Jack, in your other topic

 

Having said all I have before, it will still mean that IF you do have 2 heads ( Inverters) and turn one off, the other will Still try and Cool the whole Area and this could have a detrimental effect on the one doing the bulk of the Work. Azon reminded me of this a short time ago. 

Again OMW this was a deciding factor in the End.

Seems the system you are looking into is ok for separate closed rooms but I feel this is why it was not recommended for a large open Area.

 

Jack :thumbsup:

 

Yes, makes sense.  Today I measured the open area and it is big.  It might be worth it to build a wall with french doors to the dining area, which is almost 22 square meters.  The total area is about 85 sq m.  There is a door to the bedroom area but the rest is open.

 

I'm fairly certain I am buying the place.  I should know soon.

[Tukaram (Tim)]

1. I bet you could get them here. I have not looked, but a high end product will have a very high end price.

 

2. I would not personally put one in my house... I worked on a lot of variable speed units at my old job. We had almost 300 schools and put them everywhere!  They kept saying we saved a lot on electricity but all the maintenance cost - and continual equipment replacement, had to eat up any potential savings.  There are just too many circuit boards to burn up...and that was with reliable power in Dallas, TX. Our power here is so bad I gave up on LED bulbs - even they only last 3-4 months. 

 

3. There are many different ways they monitor and control. Basically as the demand increases the freq. drive ramps up, and slows down/unloads as demand falls. Each space will have to have it's own control (some type of thermostat or sensor). The ductless units tend to have a remote control similar to a window unit remote.  On cooler days and nights when it is running at minimum because demand is low, yeah, it should run a bit cheaper than having 3 or 4 separate compressors.

 

4. From my experience the initial cost is much higher but supposedly pays you back in electrical savings. Standard units cost a good bit less upfront. :tiphat:

[OnMyWay]

Here is a stupid question.  I should probably know this but I am not sure.

 

Should a modern inverter air con continue to dehumidify when it is not cooling?

 

1. I bet you could get them here. I have not looked, but a high end product will have a very high end price.

 

2. I would not personally put one in my house... I worked on a lot of variable speed units at my old job. We had almost 300 schools and put them everywhere!  They kept saying we saved a lot on electricity but all the maintenance cost - and continual equipment replacement, had to eat up any potential savings.  There are just too many circuit boards to burn up...and that was with reliable power in Dallas, TX. Our power here is so bad I gave up on LED bulbs - even they only last 3-4 months. 

 

3. There are many different ways they monitor and control. Basically as the demand increases the freq. drive ramps up, and slows down/unloads as demand falls. Each space will have to have it's own control (some type of thermostat or sensor). The ductless units tend to have a remote control similar to a window unit remote.  On cooler days and nights when it is running at minimum because demand is low, yeah, it should run a bit cheaper than having 3 or 4 separate compressors.

 

4. From my experience the initial cost is much higher but supposedly pays you back in electrical savings. Standard units cost a good bit less upfront. :tiphat:

[Dave Hounddriver]

There are just too many circuit boards to burn up.

 

That was what the local aircon repairman told me.  He said I should get a non-inverter type next time because the power in Philippines fries the circuit board (as it did for me not long ago)  But I must be a spoiled foreigner because I still like the quiet, efficient, cool operation of a split type inverter unit.  Perhaps I should just get some kind of external capacitor to level out the current getting to the aircon?  Can that be done?