Another attack on the people of Belgium

[mogo51]

Sadly, I have woken to find another 2 terrorist attacks in Belgium and my heart goes out to the people of Brussels.  I have been there and it was a lovely part of the world.  It is sad that they have been subjected to this muslem terrorism.

Their Government, like many over the world, have let their country be invaded by these people, many with extreme religious and political views. I am not wanting to turn this thread into a hate message, that is not my intention.  But when will the 'free' world wake up, unite and physically drive these types of people off the face of the earth.

I am appalled by the failure of the UN, a toothless tiger, all they ever do is issue a limp message 'deploring' muslem actions. This organisation should be folded and a western alliance formed to attack and demolish these people such as Isis.

When will the world cry 'enough' and do something about it, thereby protecting their citizens. A sad day.

 

[chris49]

That's why a person like Donald Trump continues to gain popular opinion.

I do agree that opening borders to hundred's of thousands of refugees will be seen as a massive error in terms of later history. Sadly (think of Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps since 1967-8) I think that refugee camps in neighboring Muslim countries are a better alternative......the thing about primarily Christian countries taking in Muslim refugees is wrong. Rich countries like Saudi Arabia avoid involvement, but cover themselves by sending a few token troops here and there.

As for the UN. The Jewish lobby and the US veto power stalls the whole thing. I agree it should be wound down, with maybe an annual convention of delegates....but not full time.

[not so old china hand]

1 hour ago, mogo51 said:

Sadly, I have woken to find another 2 terrorist attacks in Belgium and my heart goes out to the people of Brussels.  I have been there and it was a lovely part of the world.  It is sad that they have been subjected to this muslem terrorism.

Their Government, like many over the world, have let their country be invaded by these people, many with extreme religious and political views. I am not wanting to turn this thread into a hate message, that is not my intention.  But when will the 'free' world wake up, unite and physically drive these types of people off the face of the earth.

I am appalled by the failure of the UN, a toothless tiger, all they ever do is issue a limp message 'deploring' muslem actions. This organisation should be folded and a western alliance formed to attack and demolish these people such as Isis.

When will the world cry 'enough' and do something about it, thereby protecting their citizens. A sad day.

 

I couldn't agree more.

This strikes a deep chord with me. I was based in Brussels in the late 1980s and worked in offices in Rue de Loi and Zaventem. I traveled through the locations of both bombings many hundreds of times.

I understand that this type of act is one reason that the British Government opposes the Schengen Agreement. It makes it far easier for terrorists to move around from a location where arms and and explosives are relatively easy to obtain to any chosen target.

Prior to the SA European borders were patrolled and at times of hightened alerts border checks could be intensified easily. In the 1980s I crossed borders every few days, by car or train. On most occaisions I would be waved straight through. However at times certain European terrorist groups (most with three letter acronyms) would bomb and shoot outside their home territories. Then  checks would be stepped up.

On one occaision I was driving from Germany into the Netherlands just after a series of bombings at British military bases in Germany. The Dutch border border police were inspecting everyone's passport before letting drivers procede. A border guard took my passport, looked at and blinked. Then he disappeared into the office. We waited for a long time while other cars were waved through. Finally my Dutch girlfriend went accross to enquire whether there was a problem. She was told "We have been instructed to copy down details of all visas and entry and exit stamps. On his passport that is over sixty pages."

Edited March 23, 2016 by not so old china hand
correcting typos

[mogo51]

Yes I have been to Europe several times but not in the last 10 years and I loved it there. The best was before the EU raised its ugly head.

Now the appalling indifference by Euro politicians particularly Germany, has created an insufferable position there and the damage will be immense.  Europe will buckle under the weight of illegals.  Countries will flounder.

How can Greece continue to allow them in, they cannot feed the people they have?  The Australian policy of turn back the boats, should be adopted. We no longer have an illegal immigrant problem (other than the ones we still have that arrived previously).

The welfare of the genuine citizens has been abandoned.

[robert k]

3 hours ago, mogo51 said:

Yes I have been to Europe several times but not in the last 10 years and I loved it there. The best was before the EU raised its ugly head.

Now the appalling indifference by Euro politicians particularly Germany, has created an insufferable position there and the damage will be immense.  Europe will buckle under the weight of illegals.  Countries will flounder.

How can Greece continue to allow them in, they cannot feed the people they have?  The Australian policy of turn back the boats, should be adopted. We no longer have an illegal immigrant problem (other than the ones we still have that arrived previously).

The welfare of the genuine citizens has been abandoned.

Many people in business news have said Germany wanted refugees as a cheap labor force. Some have suggested that they passed on those who didn't have needed skills. The German Prime Minister saying the ones who find jobs can stay forever gives credence to that assertion. I think political science is anything but. Natural laws will have their day. In this case The Law Of Unintended Consequences. Put an ad in the paper for a free ice cream cone to generate business expecting a maximum of 300-500 people and 5,000 show up!

[mogo51]

Well said Robert.  That is what America did back in 1800's with African Slave Labor and look at the consequences there.

Australia did it after second world war when we needed tradesmen. The first generation that came to our shores were great  people and hard workers who assimilated as best they could into our society.  Roll the clock on 50 years and middle eastern decendents have become become radicalised as they say.

They are lawless and gang entombed - the problem is festering very quickly.

[stevewool]

On 22/03/2016 at 10:42 PM, mogo51 said:

Sadly, I have woken to find another 2 terrorist attacks in Belgium and my heart goes out to the people of Brussels.  I have been there and it was a lovely part of the world.  It is sad that they have been subjected to this muslem terrorism.

Their Government, like many over the world, have let their country be invaded by these people, many with extreme religious and political views. I am not wanting to turn this thread into a hate message, that is not my intention.  But when will the 'free' world wake up, unite and physically drive these types of people off the face of the earth.

I am appalled by the failure of the UN, a toothless tiger, all they ever do is issue a limp message 'deploring' muslem actions. This organisation should be folded and a western alliance formed to attack and demolish these people such as Isis.

When will the world cry 'enough' and do something about it, thereby protecting their citizens. A sad day.

 

There seems to be no money in protecting the citizens, but protect the invading army with there rights , now thats big business, lots of rich lawyers get richer, just my thought,

They have to be crushed at source very hard and hopefully that will put fear into the others , again just my own thoughts

[stevewool]

6 hours ago, mogo51 said:

Yes I have been to Europe several times but not in the last 10 years and I loved it there. The best was before the EU raised its ugly head.

Now the appalling indifference by Euro politicians particularly Germany, has created an insufferable position there and the damage will be immense.  Europe will buckle under the weight of illegals.  Countries will flounder.

How can Greece continue to allow them in, they cannot feed the people they have?  The Australian policy of turn back the boats, should be adopted. We no longer have an illegal immigrant problem (other than the ones we still have that arrived previously).

The welfare of the genuine citizens has been abandoned.

All this plays into the Britex and i for one want out of Europe, over the last few year its the dumping ground for everyone it seems,

Europe wants to be one big country but i am afraid its looks like another one big Germany starting to breath again, again just my own thoughts

[jon1]

This war is not going to end in a few years but will continue as long as the Muslim countries continue to support ISIS and other extreme Wahabi/Salafi sects.

I agree that the latest attack will probably be the impetus for the UK to pass Britex, but I fear that the UK is already behind the immigration invasion and needs to invest on catching up. I saw an interesting op-ed yesterday on CNN (that is no longer there), calling on a multi headed approach for the defeat of the idealogy (Wahabi/Salafist). It included ALL affected countries (Middle Eastern, EU, US) to work together stabilizing the region, not providing power vacuums, Mainstream Islam to stand up publicly against ISIS et all and work on reforms that reduce the breeding grounds of discontent. In other words, these governments, coalitions, alliances, MUST work together which I believe will never happen in the near future as even my government is largely seen as malfunctioning. Much less, other weaker nations in the EU. 

With the price of oil at record lows (now $40ish up from the $20s), it is still adversely affecting the Middle East. The GCC and Saudi Arabia have recently pulled all subsidies on food, oil and energy. Gasoline in some GCC countries is currently on par with the US ($2/gallon) which is unreal when you think about it. This removal of subsidies will further destabilize these countries and foster discontent, especially within the Shia minority which are daily being put down.

The poll in the below thread should give you an idea of what we are facing in getting the Middle Eastern Countries to rise up against ISIS.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/why-we-cant-defeat-isis/

Another good read on some of the history that helped form the current mess

http://www.thenation.com/article/we-cannot-defeat-isis-without-defeating-the-wahhabi-theology-that-birthed-it/

Too be truly successful, it will take the populace to stand up to the governments for concrete resolutions, actions and efforts. All that I can say is, if you are in these affected places, stay alert. If you see something odd, report it to the authorities. Take a picture if possible. We all complain about overbearing governments (CCTV everywhere) but imagine a whole country (to include the peaceful muslim communities as they face all of the backlash produced from these bad actors) looking out for these needles in the haystack. Get out of our secularist lifestyles. Identify the mosques that are preaching the radical ideologies and take action. Iran has no qualms doing it to the Wahabi as does Saudi to the Shia.

[robert k]

9 hours ago, jon1 said:

This war is not going to end in a few years but will continue as long as the Muslim countries continue to support ISIS and other extreme Wahabi/Salafi sects.

I agree that the latest attack will probably be the impetus for the UK to pass Britex, but I fear that the UK is already behind the immigration invasion and needs to invest on catching up. I saw an interesting op-ed yesterday on CNN (that is no longer there), calling on a multi headed approach for the defeat of the idealogy (Wahabi/Salafist). It included ALL affected countries (Middle Eastern, EU, US) to work together stabilizing the region, not providing power vacuums, Mainstream Islam to stand up publicly against ISIS et all and work on reforms that reduce the breeding grounds of discontent. In other words, these governments, coalitions, alliances, MUST work together which I believe will never happen in the near future as even my government is largely seen as malfunctioning. Much less, other weaker nations in the EU. 

With the price of oil at record lows (now $40ish up from the $20s), it is still adversely affecting the Middle East. The GCC and Saudi Arabia have recently pulled all subsidies on food, oil and energy. Gasoline in some GCC countries is currently on par with the US ($2/gallon) which is unreal when you think about it. This removal of subsidies will further destabilize these countries and foster discontent, especially within the Shia minority which are daily being put down.

The poll in the below thread should give you an idea of what we are facing in getting the Middle Eastern Countries to rise up against ISIS.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/why-we-cant-defeat-isis/

Another good read on some of the history that helped form the current mess

http://www.thenation.com/article/we-cannot-defeat-isis-without-defeating-the-wahhabi-theology-that-birthed-it/

Too be truly successful, it will take the populace to stand up to the governments for concrete resolutions, actions and efforts. All that I can say is, if you are in these affected places, stay alert. If you see something odd, report it to the authorities. Take a picture if possible. We all complain about overbearing governments (CCTV everywhere) but imagine a whole country (to include the peaceful muslim communities as they face all of the backlash produced from these bad actors) looking out for these needles in the haystack. Get out of our secularist lifestyles. Identify the mosques that are preaching the radical ideologies and take action. Iran has no qualms doing it to the Wahabi as does Saudi to the Shia.

The only thing I see stopping the problem is collective responsibility. Holding the whole family responsible for raising a terrorist. The Israelis have had success in bulldozing the houses where terrorists were raised. Raise a terrorist and lose all you have. It wasn't helping that the Saudis were paying a death benefit to families who had suicide bomber children, which I believe was the impetus for the Israelis to start bulldozing. To take away the monetary incentive.

Carry this as far as necessary...until the personal cost is too high to consider acts of terrorism. It isn't nice. It certainly is not justice. It is a very outmoded way of thought and code of conduct. But then we are facing Jihad which is not the newest idea either? Maybe the answer is Crusade? I think we are heading that way anyway. I would just as soon skip all the intervening steps, mess and greater loss of life.

I'd be more than happy to go with someone else's idea if they had one that worked. I haven't heard or seen any yet proposed that did. All the west is doing right now is delaying, lying to ourselves and patting ourselves on the back because of how civilized we are. That will not fix the problem. It needs to be made clear that we don't much care what they do...but they will NOT do this or the suffering will not be theirs alone.

We don't need to allow them to attend our universities or allow their economic emigration or take in their refugees. Nothing requires the west to do these things. Where we extend kindness they perceive weakness and attack the giving hand. How stupid are we REALLY?