Slums of Manila (6 part Al Jazeera documentary).

[robert k]

2 hours ago, Kuya John said:

Maybe you just did!

Firstly, this Attitude towards the Catholic Church comes up quite often!

Not all Filipino's are Catholic or for that matter Christians.

Secondly, God gave (to those who believe in God) a brain and a conscience

Thirdly, in the modern world most people don't create babies they can't afford to take great care of.

Even if condoms were given out freely, how many would use them?

Please don't blame the Catholic doctrine for the woe's of the Philippines

As a person brought up in the Catholic faith I have a mind of my own

Prevention is better than cure.....What hasn't been created is better than aborting what has....

Being born into poverty is not a choice, creating a child is.

When you live in poverty about the only pleasure you have for free is sex ( some of us choose to pay for it)

Finally "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (John 8 verse 7)

John, I think we could carry contraception into this century. Not an expert but there are implants now that are good for 5 or more years for women. No not having a condom when needed, no forgetting to take pills.

Edited June 4, 2016 by robert k

[Sander Martin]

Also John creating a child is not allways a choice. Being raped and having the rapers child isn't a choice. What about those children that have a severe disability detected on the early stages of pregnancy and who would never live a proper life if they were to born. Abortion in The Philippines is illegal in all cases. The organisations that mostly fight to keep the abortion ban are religious. I bealive it should be every womans choice according to their religion/faith and their situation.

Fun fact: Kangaroos are able to abort their pregnancy if they feel that the situasion isn't good for they child.

Humans should have the same choice. Personally i don't support abortion, but i dont tell people that they shouldn't do it. If i would have been born a women and were raped or i found out in early stages that my baby is severely disabled, then i wouldn't bring the child into this world.

"Abortion in the Philippines is an illegal and punishable act, with no exceptions even on the grounds of endangering a woman's life, rape, or foetal impairment. The minimum prison term for an abortion is six months, and the maximum six years."

[mogo51]

The last few posts certainly open up the discussion.  I don't really see slums as being a corner stone for a new community, rather a poor spinoff  from  a breakdown in some level of fair economic distribution. I don't think these people would choose to stay in the slums, if they had an option. Yes, they have an option of having children, do they exercise it no, partly due to the teachings of the Church (regardless of what religion it is). Whether you like to believe this or not, it is fact. The Church IMO should be at the forefront trying to educate these poor people and encourage them not to conceive children they cannot afford to care for - that is godliness IMO.

[Kuya John]

Sander Martin

Some good points raised here on this topic.

I see you are living the dream in Iloilo, respectfully you are wrong to say education is free in Philippines, most school's no matter what standard expect school fee and books etc to be paid for by parents. The reason most of the slum children are not attending is down to family poverty.Even in the urban area's some children don't attend school for the same reasons, lack of money.

Chris 49 pointed out the Filipino male attutudes (Not all Filipino men) regarding children.

And then we have the explanation of Mike Swede who was spot on with his way of thinking.

Hope is the greatest thing the Filipino's have to cling to and my faith gives me hope that this world will one day be a better place for everyone to live in. regards John

Edited June 4, 2016 by Kuya John
correction

[Kuya John]

4 hours ago, Sander Martin said:

 

 

"Abortion in the Philippines is an illegal and punishable act, with no exceptions even on the grounds of endangering a woman's life, rape, or foetal impairment. The minimum prison term for an abortion is six months, and the maximum six years."

Further to this subject

I was not aware of the above, excuse my ignorance.

There will always be exceptional circumstances were a woman would have to decide what to do in her place and I'm sure that would not be a easy decision to make and live with. However in the Western World only to often abortion is used to terminate an unwanted pregnancy and used as a preventative method to motherhood. Maybe more thought is needed

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Kuya John

[Sander Martin]

15 minutes ago, Kuya John said:

Further to this subject

I was not aware of the above, excuse my ignorance.

There will always be exceptional circumstances were a woman would have to decide what to do in her place and I'm sure that would not be a easy decision to make and live with. However in the Western World only to often abortion is used to terminate an unwanted pregnancy and used as a preventative method to motherhood. Maybe more thought is needed

 

In the end it should be the womens choice. Specially on those bad occasions like rape or severe disability. Like i said i dont support abortion if the baby is healthy, but thats just my personal view. I respect the fact, then everyone has a right to choose what is right and and wrong for them. A women has a right to choose what she will do with her body.

What is better in the end: end the pregnancy early or bring the unwanted child into a world full of neglect.

Now in the case of slum children in Manila, im sure you agree that alot of them live a life of severe neglect? And here is why i dont understand religious war againts family planning. If they cant take care of the children they have, why not teach them not to have more. With great power (ability to bring children into the world) comes great responsibility (you have to take care of them).

[Sander Martin]

1 hour ago, Kuya John said:

Sander Martin

Some good points raised here on this topic.

I see you are living the dream in Iloilo, respectfully you are wrong to say education is free in Philippines, most school's no matter what standard expect school fee and books etc to be paid for by parents. The reason most of the slum children are not attending is down to family poverty.Even in the urban area's some children don't attend school for the same reasons, lack of money.

Chris 49 pointed out the Filipino male attutudes (Not all Filipino men) regarding children.

And then we have the explanation of Mike Swede who was spot on with his way of thinking.

Hope is the greatest thing the Filipino's have to cling to and my faith gives me hope that this world will one day be a better place for everyone to live in. regards John

Its the same even in Western Countries where the school is free. Textbooks and stuff will be bought by the parents. There are still free church and charity run schools if im not mistaken? It all brings us back to the start. Theres to meny people being born into familys that cant afford to take care of the children they have. Shouldnt the religious groups teach family planning to the familys and make them understand that if you have only as meny kids as you can take care of, then you can afford to educate those kids and help them out of the slum life (and in the end help yourself out of a slum life aswell if the kid grows up to be a successful person). Instead they fight againts contaceptives. The old way of thinking that i will have as meny kids as possible and surely some will grow successful is flawed. How meny success stories have you heard from the slums of the world. Not meny right. Now how meny out of those come from huge familys. Maybe a handful of extreamly lucy ones. Most people will born, live and die there.

Hope is good to a point, but there is no magic man that will save you. To be successful you have to work, not sit around hoping for a miracle. Life is a game and we all get a hand dealt when we are born. Some get a good hand to play with (born in to the right successful family) and some get a really bad one (born into slum). No matter how you start, you can succeed if you make smart decisions.

PS i wasnt attacking Catholic Church. I know there are different religions here, but Catholic is by far the biggest player with 85%. They should be the leading force with goverment to fight againts poverty.

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Sander Martin

[afathertobe]

Excellent documentary, well worth watching. I do hope that going forward they start to really implement family planning policies. It seems to me, though that may be somewhat uninformed, that society is getting ready for this kind of discussion and that even the poor start to realize its benefits. Let's hope the stranglehold the catholic church had on the topic is finally breaking loose, it's about time. 

 

[chris49]

18 hours ago, Sander Martin said:

PS i wasnt attacking Catholic Church. I know there are different religions here, but Catholic is by far the biggest player with 85%. They should be the leading force with goverment to fight againts poverty.

I said this when I first arrived almost 11 years ago.

However after living here, observing the society first hand.  Having a relationship at one time with a squatter girl. My views have changed somewhat. This girl had been the 3rd minor wife of 4 of a taxi driver. She said she's the "main wife" but evidence did not support her claim. The taxi driver had kids with all 4 and possibly other children.

Recently I met a woman, the owner of a small restuarant I go to, 12 kids with 5 different partners....one legal marriage.

I previously met a woman, one of 20 kids of a government official originally from Mindanao where the events took place. She was one of 6 kids of her own mother but only met her real father a few times in childhood. He had multiple wives, but she could not provide details.

If I do agree that the church let down it's role in family planning, I could also blame the government dating back to Marcos and the pre Marcos era. The government controlled the church and vice versa, and historically speaking, like the British Royal Family, the men of power all had mistresses, concubines and illegitimate kids, some who rose to high positions.

The Spanish/Chinese heritage and it's  influence can be cited as an ongoing cultural impact on today's society.

Edited June 4, 2016 by chris49

[MikeSwede]

I watched them all again, just to make sure I was not missing something.

But I still see a different story in many aspects than what we discuss here, I do not see that they blame the Catholic Church, since they balance it with a clear notion that each make up their own mind, or mom does it for you.

They showed clearly that affording school was more about saying no to income that could have been earned, not the cost of school as such.

And so on.

One thing is true, my mind has been slightly numbed over the years, rats in the kitchen, in the back of the house, to the right of the pee bucket, does not stress me too much.