Slums of Manila (6 part Al Jazeera documentary).

[Sander Martin]

5 hours ago, MikeSwede said:

I watched them all again, just to make sure I was not missing something.

But I still see a different story in many aspects than what we discuss here, I do not see that they blame the Catholic Church, since they balance it with a clear notion that each make up their own mind, or mom does it for you.

They showed clearly that affording school was more about saying no to income that could have been earned, not the cost of school as such.

And so on.

One thing is true, my mind has been slightly numbed over the years, rats in the kitchen, in the back of the house, to the right of the pee bucket, does not stress me too much.

Of course they wouldn't blame their church from their problems. That was just my view, that the lack of family planning these people have had is part of the problem.

Biggest problem are those people themselfs. One of the episodes showed it nicely on what happens to the trash. It's dropped 1 meter from where the person lives and then they wonder why they live in sh&t. Of course no trash pickup firm is going to pick it up from the small alleys. If an area does get cleaned up, it will be full of sh&t the next day. It was funny how some of them blamed "kids in the dark". One of the ladies said that they could drop it next to the road to be picked up, but people are lazy. You dont need to be rich to live clean.

Goverment is another problem as you could see that the people running for goverment care about the people only when they need votes. To be honest i don't really know what goverment could do there. There is noway Philippines will ever have enough money to nanny state everyone in the slums. Only thing they can really do is provide more education to the kids and parents. Family planning needs to be big part of this. This is all pointless aslong as the church has a policy of keep making babys.

 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Sander Martin

[mogo51]

You are right of course Sander, but I am afraid christians/atheists (or non believers)  will never give ground to agree on the subject.  Personally, I see it as a 'ntinueo brainer', so no prizes for what side I am on.

I just wonder what it will be like if the current situation is allowed to continue unchecked?  Over population is the single biggest problem facing the world.

[Jollygoodfellow]

On 6/4/2016 at 3:27 PM, mogo51 said:

The Government of the day tried to invoke contraception legislation, the Church had it defeated as I understand what occurred?

No the legislation was approved by the highest court  in 2014. The church lost but this year the government axed the budget for the contraception but I did read somewhere that they had enough supplies to last. Not sure if they started teaching in schools.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26938667

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/philippines-axes-contraceptive-budget-birth-control

[mogo51]

43 minutes ago, Jollygoodfellow said:

No the legislation was approved by the highest court  in 2014. The church lost but this year the government axed the budget for the contracnption but I did read somewhere that they had enough supplies to last. Not sure if they started teaching in schools.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26938667

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/philippines-axes-contraceptive-budget-birth-control

Stand corrected, I thought I read that the Church has pressured the Government into closing down the scheme?  Either way it sucks.  Why would the Government can such an important scheme, that I cannot figure.

[mogo51]

I asked Mr. Google about this. Whilst you technically correct, the material I read suggested that strong pressure from the Catholic Church, brought about the demise of the legislation, in addition to insufficient funding. the articles I read made it abundantly clear that the political pressure from the Church was the main reason. they also successfully lobbyed for the outlawing of a contraceptive drug.

[Kuya John]

This thing about the Church influence, I just don't buy it.

On the one hand, your saying the people are producing babies because the teachings are " go forth and multiply"

On the other hand we have irresponsible males fathering children all over the place.

Come on this ain't the Christianity I learnt.

Going to Church on Sunday's does not make you a Christian, no more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

Church leaders are well aware of the limit's to what is achievable and the situations the people are in.

At the end of the day, we all know the difference between right and wrong. We all are aware of the consequences  of unprotected sex, you don't need a degree in Human Behaviour to know the answer.

Poverty which this Tread started with, does not boil down to laws passed or not passed on contraception.

Whether the Catholic Church was in Philippines or not, the truth is Poverty was there and is still there, like so many other Countries, including parts of the Western World, who do not blame their woe's on the Catholic Churches teachings.

I have no more to say on this subject Poverty is Poverty and one day God willing it will be a thing of the past.

[MacBubba]

1 hour ago, Kuya John said:

On the one hand, your saying the people are producing babies because the teachings are " go forth and multiply"

On the other hand we have irresponsible males fathering children all over the place.

Come on this ain't the Christianity I learnt.

Very good observation.  The Church is against contraception, but is equally against sex outside of marriage.  So if people heed one but not the other, then overpopulation and financial hardship does not fall at the Church's feet.

This is just a comment on the quoted statement.  I thought Kuya John's observation was a fair one.  Bottomline is each person should take responsibility. 

[mogo51]

We seem to be working on the assumption that the affected people in Philippines, have sufficient education and life skills to form what is rightly suggested in above posts.

If that were the case, I would agree totally. But is it?

[Jollygoodfellow]

Guys

It's time to move on from discussions about church or religion. This topic should have many different views on ways to solve the slum problems and other causes for being slums. Continued chat about church usually ends up in someone getting offended so move on please or I will be forced to close the topic. 

[Sander Martin]

JGF is right.

John we have to agree to disagree on the matter. 

Im wondering why the government isn't trying to move these people into the provinces. I know alot of them have come to Manila for work, but they have found it wasn't the dream life they were after. Atleast in provinces they could grow food and fish (like you see in the videos theres not much fish left in the poluted waters of Manila harbour). They should lease out small blocks (that cant be transfered - so it cant be sold and they move back to the slum) for free or very low cost.

I bet theres quite alot of people that want to get awey from the slums and would be happy with a move to the provinces if the goverment gave them a helping hand.

No idea on what % of the land in Philippines is owned by the goverment tho... It might be all stolen by the politicians already.