Strongman Popularity?

[Dave Hounddriver]

Just now, robert k said:

Well, she's young Jack.

I think that's the point.  In the fable mentioned, only the young were willing to say what everyone else was thinking.  The older followers of the monarch were willing to believe the BS and to believe that their eyes must be deceiving them.  What do you see when you look at the news reports that claim a huge rise in murders since Duterte took office?  Is it because he wears a cloak of invincibility or because we are not believing what is really going on?

[Jack Peterson]

1 minute ago, robert k said:

Well, she's young Jack. Do you think she knows much about Julius Caesar? Not his death but the reason he was appointed dictator in the first place?

 She said Why? did he go on a parade in the nude as well,  Young maybe but schools here are studying this and many are not going to have the the wool pulled over their eyes. She has talked at great lengths to her Lola who as I have mentioned before, walked the all way with an American Doctor and his family from way up north to Dumaguete during the occupation and lived under Marcos, so she has insight. She said( arrogant little Blighter) tell your friend, when I want to learn about the Italians I will contact him.  For now I am Interested in my own Country. 

 Gotta hand it to her Mate she has balls ( prospective Politician? Hmmmmmmmmmm)

Oh while I remember, her friend just said but Sir, He was not appointed as a Dictator ( Duterte) was he? He was Elected President, the rest he is doing Himself. Bowing out of that conversation now, Kids ain't what they used to be sometimes.

[robert k]

16 minutes ago, Jack Peterson said:

 She said Why? did he go on a parade in the nude as well,  Young maybe but schools here are studying this and many are not going to have the the wool pulled over their eyes. She has talked at great lengths to her Lola who as I have mentioned before, walked the all way with an American Doctor and his family from way up north to Dumaguete during the occupation and lived under Marcos, so she has insight. She said( arrogant little Blighter) tell your friend, when I want to learn about the Italians I will contact him.  For now I am Interested in my own Country. 

 Gotta hand it to her Mate she has balls ( prospective Politician? Hmmmmmmmmmm)

Oh while I remember, her friend just said but Sir, He was not appointed as a Dictator ( Duterte) was he? He was Elected President, the rest he is doing Himself. Bowing out of that conversation now, Kids ain't what they used to be sometimes.

Best bow out Jack, I agree. But I would ask the young lady if Marcos was appointed dictator. Or Ghadafi in Libya. Sometimes a title bears little likeness to reality. Then too, history tends to repeat itself and those who do not learn from someone else's history may well get the chance to learn it for themselves from the first person perspective.

Edited August 23, 2016 by robert k

[Kuya John]

9 hours ago, Benington said:

If the Muslims in the Philippines have Sharia Law in their autonomous areas, there's no problem. If they set them up in the rest of the country the government will have to decide where to draw the line.

Sorry I can't agree there, the law of the land is the law, why the need for a second type of jurisdiction.

What if you live in an area and are not a Muslim, who would fight your case?

Arbitration is one thing, secret courts is another, Sharia law, where would it stop?

[Benington]

42 minutes ago, Kuya John said:

Sorry I can't agree there, the law of the land is the law, why the need for a second type of jurisdiction.

What if you live in an area and are not a Muslim, who would fight your case?

Arbitration is one thing, secret courts is another, Sharia law, where would it stop?

In Britain successive governments have followed a policy of multiculturalism. Muslim communities have been allowed these Sharia courts as part of that policy, one different from that the French have had. There it's all about integration.

Who's having the most trouble with their Muslim communities?

In Mindanao we have an area that was formerly the seat of powerful Muslim sultanates. Then came several colonisations, the last by Christians. In view of that a region was created in the West of Mindanao and since 1977 it has had its Sharia Courts. They apparently have jurisdiction, in civil matters only, over Muslims there and in the rest of the Philippines.

There was a plan under the previous administration to create a Muslim homeland in roughly the same area called Bangsamoro. It didn't get approved in Manila but Duterte has said he plans to set up a development of that area as part of regional proposals for all of the country.

I think any non Muslims living in the new Bangsamoro would be in the same, or maybe a worse position, than that of Westerners in Saudi or Malaysia. The greater prize would be peace in Mindanao and their position wouldn't matter in the scheme of things. I don't know if the Muslims there are into extreme Sharia Law, maybe not, but it may well be extended into Criminal matters in a new Bangsamoro. Non Muslims there, and even perhaps some Muslims, would have to decide whether they can stay under any new judicial arrangements.

[Methersgate]

I'd like to look at this in a different way - which I hope may be closer to the intent of the OP.

I think that Filipino culture is somewhat disposed towards deference towards "strong man" types. In the pre- Christian era, the power of the "Datu" over his territory was very great.

One sees this in the body language of local bosses. There isn't much room for a "challenge and response" type approach - here or elsewhere in Asia! 

 

 

 

 

[Reboot]

On 8/21/2016 at 7:49 PM, mogo51 said:

I think he has certainly 'hit the ground running' Jack.  I understand your point, but I think I would rather his style than the former President.  He spent a long time doing very little except for the upper end of town.

I think it is time for someone to come along and do something for the other end - hopefully he is the man.

The discussions by others relating to the 'Island Chinese crisis' is very real.  If Duterte isolates Philippines in the current circumstances - he is asking for problems.  If he believes China will sit down and talk and make concessions, again he will be disappointed IMO.  This China situation is a very serious issue for Philippines.

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2016/08/15/the-riddle-of-the-sands/?singlepage=true

 

[Kuya John]

9 hours ago, Benington said:

 Non Muslims there, and even perhaps some Muslims, would have to decide whether they can stay under any new judicial arrangements.

That's just my point, given judicial control could in the extreme, lead to people being displaced, even in their own homeland or area.

This is happening in UK, I don't know were your roots lay, but there are parts of UK were you could be forgiven for thinking which country am I in.

Once you allow segregation, not integration, communities start to break up into "No go area's," as parts of Mindanao are already.

 

[scott h]

7 hours ago, Methersgate said:

I think that Filipino culture is somewhat disposed towards deference towards "strong man" types. In the pre- Christian era, the power of the "Datu" over his territory was very great.

One sees this in the body language of local bosses. There isn't much room for a "challenge and response" type approach - here or elsewhere

Good observation Meth.

An example I have is my dentist. A woman of 35, married, has one child, owns her own business, and is actually related (3rd,4th, or 5th cousin I think) to my wife. She started calling me "Sir Scott" (which I hate, makes me feel like a knight at the round table) I said, just call me Scott, "oh I cannot do that, you are older than I am. We finally settle on Kuya Scott.

These are the type of ingrained cultural norms I am thinking of.

[Benington]

1 hour ago, Kuya John said:

That's just my point, given judicial control could in the extreme, lead to people being displaced, even in their own homeland or area.

This is happening in UK, I don't know were your roots lay, but there are parts of UK were you could be forgiven for thinking which country am I in.

Once you allow segregation, not integration, communities start to break up into "No go area's," as parts of Mindanao are already.

 

Full integration of people in a country is a laudable aim. UK immigrants over the last 60 years tended to concentrate in certain areas due initially to certain industries/services asking them to come there. They then attracted more incomers over the years as relatives joined those already there, to communities where they felt comfortable and to get a start to a better life. Leading, as you say, in many areas, to an exodus of existing residents. This process was repeated with the more recent influx from Eastern Europe.

Personally I avoided actually residing in those places during my years there, but when growing up and for a time later knew well, and worked in, Luton, Beds. Also got to know, and work in other areas in London and Yorkshire, relevant to our discussion. It was an early strange experience to walk along a main street in Luton and not see a white skin for 5 minutes.

I think with some groups an integration which means major dispersal around a country is not possible. So we are unfortunately stuck with areas, which, although they cannot be described as Ghettos, are dominated by certain immigrant groups, in an unsettling way sometimes. Still, I think other forms of integration should be pursued  eg so they understand British values, desist from certain cultural practices etc. Maybe Britain hasn't done enough of that. 

Getting back to Mindanao the big point is that the island previously had there a number of powerful, militaristic Muslim Sultanates. Various colonisations took place over the centuries, the final one (not counting the Expats!) being many Christian settlers. So today Muslims make up only 20% of Mindanao's population. They are mostly concentrated in the West, in an area now called the ARMM, an area which Duterte wants to develop, with changes, into a federal region of the Philippines.

I looked it up... in the ARMM Muslims comprise 90% of the population. Just like there was in Northern Ireland there is a great desire on the part of the government to bring about peace. In doing so certain compromises always have to be made. At present it seems Christians and other minorities in the ARMM do have some representation and there is an agreement that the Sharia law there will not include any extreme punishments. That information is all from Wikipedia, so whether being a Christian in the ARMM is a pleasant experience I have no idea. Probably not everywhere, as when you Google you read claims of churches being attacked.

Duterte's plan is to establish peace in a federal structure, work on developing MIndanao's infrastructure and the economy and hope that eventually rising standards of living, it's got high poverty levels for the Philippines, will bring the people there together. It might work, although there is one area of the world where it didn't. Some people used to argue, extremely simplistically, that the employment of the well known entrepreneurial talents of the Jews in Israel would be something the Palestinians needed and would welcome, leading to acceptance by the Palestinians of Israel's existence and expansion. Palestine is an extreme and intractable case, but in Minadanao also many other issues do need to be addressed before people there will get along in peace.