Dual national shot - does this count?

[Methersgate]

I decided not to delete this, as on reading round the subject I noticed that Filipino commentators - her friends as well as journalists - were certainly making reference to the victim's British citizenship.

[robert k]

1 minute ago, Gratefuled said:

Here in Davao City, bullet riddled bodies with placards  have been found before Duterte was president. This is where the DDS got it's start. Duterte's war on crime began long before he became president. 

Worse than before???  No, not worse nor better. I'm just saying that it could be used as an excuse to have someone murdered, guilty or not guilty.

Do you think Duterte was covertly responsible for all such murders in the Philippines, they just didn't place placards outside Davao so they could hide who was doing it?

Ed, people didn't need an excuse before, they don't need an excuse now. It literally make no difference in that regard.

What may make a difference is that it has been dragged front and center. When the voters, who seem very much in favor of it right now demand it stop, then possibly it will stop. Dirty little secrets don't get on the ballot because well...they're secrets. If anything, I think Duterte has done a very significant thing in the eventual elimination of vigilantism.

I have heard some say that there needs to be double the judges, prosecutors, courtrooms and it follows that they would also need at least double the prison space. I just don't see that happening.

It is a fact that the criminal justice system is not working.

There is always a justice system working, you get to pick which one you want and are willing to pay for but you don't get to decide whether you have one or not. When the state sponsored criminal justice system flourishes, which to me means the population has faith in it, vigilante justice will wither away. Rather than complaining about vigilante justice, you might instead lobby for the system that will supplant it. Vigilante justice is here to stay until there is a viable alternative. You can continue to bang your head against a brick wall, or possibly you could contribute to a real and lasting solution. Try to understand why the people have no faith in their state sponsored criminal justice system.

[robert k]

12 minutes ago, Methersgate said:

I decided not to delete this, as on reading round the subject I noticed that Filipino commentators - her friends as well as journalists - were certainly making reference to the victim's British citizenship.

I see, for political grist only, she was British, in all other things I suppose she remained Filipino.

I wouldn't agree she was a foreigner unless she had given up her Philippine citizenship. Is it even possible to irrevocably renounce Philippine citizenship?

[Methersgate]

2 minutes ago, robert k said:

I see, for political grist only, she was British, in all other things I suppose she remained Filipino.

I wouldn't agree she was a foreigner unless she had given up her Philippine citizenship. Is it even possible to irrevocably renounce Philippine citizenship?

So far as I am aware, it is rather easy to renounce Filipino citizenship. Grace Poe managed it by the simple act of becoming a US citizen. Obviously that wasn't "irrevocable", because she changed her mind!

If Filipinos find her British citizenship pertinent, then yes I think, subject to what  JGF says, the story belongs here.

[Gratefuled]

19 minutes ago, robert k said:

Do you think Duterte was covertly responsible for all such murders in the Philippines, they just didn't place placards outside Davao so they could hide who was doing it?

Ed, people didn't need an excuse before, they don't need an excuse now. It literally make no difference in that regard.

What may make a difference is that it has been dragged front and center. When the voters, who seem very much in favor of it right now demand it stop, then possibly it will stop. Dirty little secrets don't get on the ballot because well...they're secrets. If anything, I think Duterte has done a very significant thing in the eventual elimination of vigilantism.

I have heard some say that there needs to be double the judges, prosecutors, courtrooms and it follows that they would also need at least double the prison space. I just don't see that happening.

It is a fact that the criminal justice system is not working.

There is always a justice system working, you get to pick which one you want and are willing to pay for but you don't get to decide whether you have one or not. When the state sponsored criminal justice system flourishes, which to me means the population has faith in it, vigilante justice will wither away. Rather than complaining about vigilante justice, you might instead lobby for the system that will supplant it. Vigilante justice is here to stay until there is a viable alternative. You can continue to bang your head against a brick wall, or possibly you could contribute to a real and lasting solution. Try to understand why the people have no faith in their state sponsored criminal justice system.

I like your response. I agree with you. No I am not in favor of vigilantes. Yes, the criminal court system needs to be overhauled. 

The states have the same problem. If one has the money, one can drag on a trial indefinitely. There are liberal judges and there are conservative judges. The eastern part of the states has the more  conservative while the west coast has the most liberal. More death sentences are carried out in the east and less in the west.

There are numerous cases on record where a the prosecution could never prove beyond reasonable doubt an accused person's guilt.

Ampatuan Massacre comes to mind. How long has it been with no results. Even accused murderers set free on bail. Even witnesses disappeared and probably murdered.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Gratefuled
addition/correction

[Old55]

3 minutes ago, Methersgate said:

So far as I am aware, it is rather easy to renounce Filipino citizenship. Grace Poe managed it by the simple act of becoming a US citizen. Obviously that wasn't "irrevocable", because she changed her mind!

If Filipinos find her British citizenship pertinent, then yes I think, subject to what  JGF says, the story belongs here.

I moved the topic to Philippines News. The placement at first was OK, Philippines News a slightly better fit no big deal.

[Methersgate]

6 hours ago, Old55 said:

I moved the topic to Philippines News. The placement at first was OK, Philippines News a slightly better fit no big deal.

Thanks; yes, that's a better place.

[Jollygoodfellow]

12 hours ago, Methersgate said:

I decided not to delete this

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately members can not delete topics on this forum but can request for it to be done but in general there is usually no need.