Mining decisions

[jpbago]

8 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Back before environmental standards were the order of the day, Sudbury Canada may have held that position.  That was until the surrounding area started to look like a planet devoid of life

That was then but this is now: Today, Sudbury boasts the largest, most successful environmental restoration program in the world.  In 15 years was rejuvenated from an acidic wasteland to a productive wetland and transformed from a hostile environment into a wildlife sanctuary.

https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/case-study/mining-remediation-sudbury-region-ontario

[Dave Hounddriver]

11 minutes ago, jpbago said:

Today, Sudbury boasts

Yes, agreed.  I am saying that Philippines is so far behind real life that it would be like "then" and not like "today" if mining continues without first world precautions.

[Jake]

31 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Yes, agreed.  I am saying that Philippines is so far behind real life that it would be like "then" and not like "today" if mining continues without first world precautions.

I don't believe (at least not in my lifetime) that corruption in the government, including environmental agencies will clean itself.  There will be permits being sold to the highest buyer, the buddy-buddy system and the infamous under the table deals. They will still continue to be first world class transactions dealing in monkey business.  

I do hope that the PI government will get their chit together in helping the folks down in Surigao.  This should be an immediate priority.....nothing else matters for now.  

Edited February 12, 2017 by Jake

[mogo51]

17 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Yes, agreed.  I am saying that Philippines is so far behind real life that it would be like "then" and not like "today" if mining continues without first world precautions.

That is my very point Dave.  Provided DU30 can overcome his phobia and take a more sensible approach to mining, vasts sums of revenue will be lost to the Philippines.  There must be a sensible evenly balanced approach to mining and the environment.  As seen in the article presented on Ontario,  ibt can be done.

Australia for example is involved in vast joint ventures in all countries throughout the world such as China, Africa, PNG, Indonesia etc.  The same applies to most other 'first world' countries where mining is sensibly undertaken and both parties benefit.  Yes there are the odd problem such as a dam in Brazil rupturing and contaminated tailings caused unacceptable damage to a nearby Village.  This mine has just recommenced production with improved safety facilities.

By the way, the original problem was caused by the Brazilian partner Vale pumping untreated tailings into the dam without knowledge of its 50% partner BHP.

My point here is that Philippines should seek joint ventures with reputable operators from US, Canada, Australia, UK etc to reopen these mines with adequate safety requirements installed and adhered to.  This is the answer, not closing them down as this tree hugger Gina wants to do (and I suspect DU30) also it seems.

Philippines just cannot afford to walk away from considerable income that such projects bring to the Country.  'Moral Ground'  does not feed the poor and needy.

[mogo51]

17 hours ago, jpbago said:

That was then but this is now: Today, Sudbury boasts the largest, most successful environmental restoration program in the world.  In 15 years was rejuvenated from an acidic wasteland to a productive wetland and transformed from a hostile environment into a wildlife sanctuary.

https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/case-study/mining-remediation-sudbury-region-ontario

Ahh some balance is brought to the discussion jp. Amazing what can be achieved if lateral thinking is applied.  That was an interesting article.

[mogo51]

On 2/8/2017 at 8:16 AM, jpbago said:

The money is here, it just goes to the wrong hands. In today's Panay News, 8  + 3 gov officials were dismissed for grave misconduct in the purchase of office furniture in Bacolod, in Sun Star Cebu, arrest warrants are out for 10 gov officials including the ex mayor for graft in the purchase of construction materials.

I read that JP and agree with you.  But progress is being made by DU30 in these areas of corruption but it will take time.  You can never rid the country of corruption completely, indeed no country exists without some corruption.  But keeping it to a minimum is as good as it can get IMO.

[mogo51]

17 hours ago, sonjack2847 said:

Just read this from AFP news.

The Philippines will review an order to close two dozen mines, the government said Friday, after the decision sparked concern over jobs losses and the economy.

The environment ministry last week ordered the closure of 23 of the country's large-scale mines and the suspension of five others after a government investigation found they had illegally cut down trees and polluted rivers.

The Philippines is the world's top supplier of nickel ore and the main exporter to China. The closure order caused a rise in global nickel prices and a decline in local mining shares.

A council headed by the environment and finance ministers met on Thursday and said it would create a "multi-stakeholder review" of the order.

"(The council shall) advise the (environment ministry) on the performance of existing mining operations in consultation with local government units," a resolution issued by the council stated.

The closures and suspensions were the result of a government audit started last year after President Rodrigo Duterte assumed office and appointed a staunch mining critic, Gina Lopez, as environment secretary.

Finance Secretary Carlos Dominguez had expressed concern about the effect of Lopez's order on local government tax revenues and the 1.2 million people the mining industry said it employs.

The order would cost local government units 650 million pesos ($13 million) in annual revenues, according to the finance ministry.

But Lopez insisted on Friday the council's review would just be "recommendatory" and insisted she would not reverse her decision.

She added the review was meant "to appease the miners".

"I still make the decisions and my decision is no mining in watersheds. I don't see that as changing because water is life," Lopez told ABS-CBN television.

Lopez however said her order could be appealed before Duterte and would only be enforced once he made a decision.

Duterte, who enjoys wide popular support, said last week that he backed Lopez's directive.

I think Gina Lopez was probably not the smartest choice do undertake such a review and the result was probably always predictable.  Mr. DU30 is far from silly and I suspect he was looking for such a result to justify his mine closures.

It is more than possible Kev that many of these mines deserved to be closed due to environmental neglect.  I suspect a more balanced approach would have come to the conclusions that I have put forward in another post this morning.

Stricter environmental obligations are the answer IMO.  The article another member posted about a Canadian mine and the land rehabilitation that occurred there is what is needed, then it is a win/win for all.

That was a good article Kev and in the end she has started tom'back track' it would appear from her latter comments.

[jpbago]

1 hour ago, mogo51 said:

Stricter environmental obligations are the answer IMO.

I imagine that the obligations are there but like other laws here, there is no enforcement. There is too much acceptance of "this is the Philippines and that is how it is".

[jpbago]

1 hour ago, mogo51 said:

Ahh some balance is brought to the discussion jp. Amazing what can be achieved if lateral thinking is applied.  That was an interesting article.

Sudbury is just one example. Suncor also has returned the oil sands back to it's natural "before mining" condition after it has extracted oil from that area. Gold and diamond mines in the Alaska and NWT also return the land to natural as they move on to a new area. It just takes enforcement or no new licences. For a miner, it is just the cost of doing business.

[Reboot]

The way the Canucks are handling the Alberta oil sands is a good model to follow.