Why Are Many Filipinos So Poor?

[Mr Lee]

TheMasons post at the link I provided made me think about trying to find answers to why many Filipinos are so poor TheMasons post click hereSo why do we think many Filipinos are so poor? IMO a lot of it is about work ethic and families looking to the children to support them instead of living their lives for tomorrow and not just today. I was never rich during my life, yet I am now richer than many due to choices in life and a lot of luck or being in the right place at the right time, so no brag, just info that I am using to make a point, and I feel that I got where I am due in part at least to my sometimes crazy work ethic of working 3 jobs. While working too much is surely not good for family and I am not advocating that anyone be as stupid as I was because it had caused me many problems, there has to be a balance. Now here is what I mean, even when I had little to nothing, I always managed to put away a dollar or two and some weeks or months ten. I always looked at items as, do I really need that. Now I know that for many Filipinos the difference might be not eating and I also know this does not apply to or cannot be used with the poorest of poor, but even my wife and her family managed to eat fruits off trees when they did not have regular food to eat. In a country where there can often be so much fruits and where most families will help each other to at least eat and often to move a house or other things that need to be done, I feel depending on the children as if they are their retirement fund, and putting so much guilt into the children that they must send money home, is part of the problem because it does not allow the next generation to save for their future. I also know that many times this does not apply and parents get sick and often need help but I am talking about able bodied individuals who should have enough pride in themselves to not wish help from anyone else and many Filipinos do fall into this category and I am only writing here about the ones who don't. . I often see people in the states who blame others for their failures and I have even offered to help some of them get jobs and their answer was that they would not work for those low a wage, yet they told me that their children were starving. I worked 3 jobs when I was younger and for minimum wages, yet when added together those wages equaled a good salary. Many of us and many Filipino children enable those people to feel that way. If we give them a free meal then they do not have to work for it, and if we give them and keep giving, are we really helping them? I feel the old saying that if you give a person a fish they will eat for that day, but if you teach them to fish then they will eat for a lifetime, hits the nail right on the head. I would much rather make a person work for the money than just give it to them. We used to give a lot of money to our family when I was still working, but years later and looking back, I found that most did not have anything to show for all we had given. After all when you get something and do not have to work for it, you often do not appreciate it anywhere as much as you would if you had earned it on your own. That also went for the kids we sent to college, and also only IMO, all that money was wasted because only one out of six graduated and even he did not pass the board exam, so he will probably never get a great job and therefore he may never pull himself out of poverty. If, and I do say if, I ever send another kid to college, it would only be if they were working students and paid a lot of what they needed themselves, but that is just my experiences and maybe some of you have had different experience????IMO and from my actual dealings with many of the poor working class Filipinos, some of those I dealt with and who continued to be poor, did in fact have the wrong work ethic and many of those I met who refused to let themselves be the poorest of poor, had a much better work ethic. First they often take a number of breaks during the day and go to sleep, I never did that even as I approached my late 50's, then they often leave right in the middle of a portion of a job because the clock has hit quitting time, when a few more minutes would have finished off that section. I never did that either and finishing what I was in the middle of, always made my next day easier. So yes, many are responsible for their own poorness IMO while others often are not, but in order for there to be a change, again IMO, most would have to learn to depend only on themselves and gain some pride in themselves. My wife grew up very poor but she knew that she wanted a better life and that she wanted to go to school to get that better life, so she worked hard even as a child and she paid for much of her own school clothes and school supplies because her family often could not afford to, and she often went without a meal and ate only fruit. I feel that she grew up to be the fantastic person that she is today because she had to work for what she got in life and I feel that giving without making a person earn it may be many of the causes of the continued poverty all over the world and not just in the Philippines. If there is ever to be change, I feel those things need to change. Maybe I am totally off base here and I would like to hear other opinions on how we as foreigners can help to bring about change.

[twostrokes]

Without touching on all your points, I will add to the info on the work ethic. I think a lot of what you say is true. I used to say, it would take 5 filipinos to do in one day what one American could do. ( I know there also lazy Americans too,but it is not really the norm). I think one of the reasons the wages are so low at P250 a day is that is all the work they do. Employers get tired of needing 5 people to do the work of one. If they produced then maybe someday the employer would see he could get rid of 4 of the workers and pay the one P1,000 a day. This of course has become a downward spiral....As employees now say "why should I work, I only get paid P250 a day." Both sides have a point. But what can ever change it. I know Filipinos here in the states, show up on time, work their 8 hours, produce, etc etc, just as most everyone. So it isn't really in the blood, it is in the environment. I also think that this is why a lot of the foreign companies who came there, left. It isn't worth it as you can't fight the system.I also think that the "one day millionaire" attitude is very strong there. The "live for today" attitude goes way too far. But again, part of the problem is if they save, and anyone in the family finds out they have money, then they expect their share. So why save, why not spend it now on themselves as if not tomorrow someone else will get some of it. Again the downward spiral....If they would spend responsibly and save responsibily, then they would not need to grab what someone else has and expect your share. One of the things that made me seriously look at my present wife as a mate is the fact that even with her low wages and her supporting her two kids and parents, she managed to have a bank account with over P10,000 in it. That was when pesos were 20/1 not 50/1. That told me a lot about her character. The amount of money was not so important as the fact that she was saving it for later in life or a real emergency. Of course she had to hide this account from all her family.Thats just two of my ideas of why poverty is so bad.

[TheMason]

The work ethic, or lack of it, is one of the problems here but I don't think you can lay it all on poor work ethic. I always wonder why people have a poor work ethic. Are they just lazy or has their experiences shown them that working hard isn't likely to payoff anyway, so why bother?For example, Mr. Lee said he worked 3 jobs to improve his economic situation. In the Philippines, people are lucky to find one job, let alone 3. In fact, most employers in the Philippines will not permit you to work multiple jobs. They will fire you if they find out you are working elsewhere. Given these circumstances, working multiple jobs in the Philippines isn't an option. If someone attempts to improve their lot in life with this method, they run the risk of losing everything.The requirements to get most jobs in the Philippines are quite high. You must be a college graduate to work anything but the most menial of jobs. In the US, you can work full time at McDonald's at the age of 16 and start supporting yourself. In the Philippines, you can't work at McDonald's unless you are a college graduate. There are jobs for nongraduates, but they are generally under the table jobs that do not pay the minimum wage. You can work as a clerk in a local market without a degree but the pay is 100-150 per day.Another problem is the rampant discrimination in hiring. If you are over 30, don't bother to apply. If you are short, don't bother to apply. If your skin is too dark, don't bother to apply. If you are a single mother, don't bother to apply. If you are a married woman, don't bother to apply. If you aren't a friend or relative of the person hiring, don't bother to apply. If you aren't a member of Iglesias de Cristo, forget about working at SM. My wife's first trip out of the Philippines was when we went to Singapore. We went out to dinner at a restaurant and she kept staring at the waitress. I finally asked her why she was staring and she said, 'that waitress is really old.' She was stunned to see someone in their 40s working as a waitress. She asked me if old people were allowed to work in the US. She was shocked when I told her about labor laws and how the US tries to protect employees from discrimination on the job. Try getting a job in the Philippines if you are over 30. It just won't happen. If you already have a job at that age you can usually keep it, but you'll have a tough time finding work if your employer lets you go.My attitude used to be that Filipinos were extremely lazy people and I blamed them for their poverty. My attitude has changed though. There are definitely lazy people that avoid work at any cost but there are also a lot of people that just don't have opportunity to improve themselves. For all its faults, the US truly is the land of opportunity. You can work hard to improve your life and in general your success is only limited by how hard you are willing to work. That just isn't the case here in the Philippines. Its so easy to use our Western upbringing and frame of reference to judge what goes on here in the Philippines. I have to wonder though, if I had been born and raised in the slums or provinces of the Philippines, would I be the hardworking, successful person I am today? Or would I be just another Filipino drinking Red Horse and waiting for that remittance check from my brother-in-law? My ego likes to think it is the former but I can't say that for certain. I just thank God I was born and raised in the US and will never have to learn the answer to that question.

[Mr Lee]

The work ethic, or lack of it, is one of the problems here but I don't think you can lay it all on poor work ethic. I always wonder why people have a poor work ethic. Are they just lazy or has their experiences shown them that working hard isn't likely to payoff anyway, so why bother?For example, Mr. Lee said he worked 3 jobs to improve his economic situation. In the Philippines, people are lucky to find one job, let alone 3. In fact, most employers in the Philippines will not permit you to work multiple jobs. They will fire you if they find out you are working elsewhere. Given these circumstances, working multiple jobs in the Philippines isn't an option. If someone attempts to improve their lot in life with this method, they run the risk of losing everything.The requirements to get most jobs in the Philippines are quite high. You must be a college graduate to work anything but the most menial of jobs. In the US, you can work full time at McDonald's at the age of 16 and start supporting yourself. In the Philippines, you can't work at McDonald's unless you are a college graduate. There are jobs for nongraduates, but they are generally under the table jobs that do not pay the minimum wage. You can work as a clerk in a local market without a degree but the pay is 100-150 per day.Another problem is the rampant discrimination in hiring. If you are over 30, don't bother to apply. If you are short, don't bother to apply. If your skin is too dark, don't bother to apply. If you are a single mother, don't bother to apply. If you are a married woman, don't bother to apply. If you aren't a friend or relative of the person hiring, don't bother to apply. If you aren't a member of Iglesias de Cristo, forget about working at SM. My wife's first trip out of the Philippines was when we went to Singapore. We went out to dinner at a restaurant and she kept staring at the waitress. I finally asked her why she was staring and she said, 'that waitress is really old.' She was stunned to see someone in their 40s working as a waitress. She asked me if old people were allowed to work in the US. She was shocked when I told her about labor laws and how the US tries to protect employees from discrimination on the job. Try getting a job in the Philippines if you are over 30. It just won't happen. If you already have a job at that age you can usually keep it, but you'll have a tough time finding work if your employer lets you go.My attitude used to be that Filipinos were extremely lazy people and I blamed them for their poverty. My attitude has changed though. There are definitely lazy people that avoid work at any cost but there are also a lot of people that just don't have opportunity to improve themselves. For all its faults, the US truly is the land of opportunity. You can work hard to improve your life and in general your success is only limited by how hard you are willing to work. That just isn't the case here in the Philippines. Its so easy to use our Western upbringing and frame of reference to judge what goes on here in the Philippines. I have to wonder though, if I had been born and raised in the slums or provinces of the Philippines, would I be the hardworking, successful person I am today? Or would I be just another Filipino drinking Red Horse and waiting for that remittance check from my brother-in-law? My ego likes to think it is the former but I can't say that for certain. I just thank God I was born and raised in the US and will never have to learn the answer to that question.

OK, I think you are wrong on many points. First of all you may be talking about people who work for stores when you say that people are not allowed to have other jobs. I know of many Filipinos who hold down more than one job and others who work many hours in the jobs they have. Some employers will keep a person who is a good worker and who goes the extra mile. I think that many employers have those short contracts in order to keep salaries down and not have to pay any benefits, but there are other employers who have full time employees and continue to give raises to them as they progress in years. You state that a person must be a college graduate and that people that are not pretty or above an age cannot get jobs. You are obviously thinking only of the ladies and ladies are only half the population and what you say is not true in all stores or businesses. Many smaller stores hire any type of lady but you are correct that they usually go by recommendation, so maybe it is not a bad idea to get to know the current employees and ask them to recommend them. I know my wife got her job that way and worked for 6 years in the same place. I know that my salesman in our condo continues to work for the same employer for over 3 years that I know him and he is a man and he also has a disability and only has one good working arm, so he did not have to be beautiful or in perfect shape to get and keep his job, but he did have to work hard and be nice to people to continue on which goes back to work ethic, he goes the extra mile each and every time for people and that is why I now try to treat him like he is one of our family, yet he still calls me sir Lee. :541: I can go on and on but this is already a novel, so I will just continue on and address other issues.I have also seen many gay men and some flaming, yet they are working as waiters and sales help in many stores, so again I think you are only talking about the women and I am talking about the whole population and I think the discrimination the women often get is because the bosses know that they will get married and get pregnant because that is what almost every women in the Philippines seems to seek and then have to take off time or quit her job. You do not see many pregnant women working in stores, and in fact it is rare to see a pregnant women working in most stores.I have also seen the same gay men and often the same women working in the same restaurants and stores year after year, so the bosses all must not keep changing staff as you say they do and many of those ladies are getting older and in their 40's and 50's.As for the men drinking and partying, I watch and talk to workmen, guards, and many average Filipino men and it seems that many live for drinking on their time off, so they are no different than many of us expats that also drink and party, but the one big difference is, they should not be spending the little bit of money they get on beer and should be saving for their families future. I think you are in a different area of the Philippines where things may be very different or you are not talking to the average workers. I make it a point to be friends with average Filipinos and many open up to me and talk to me and tell me things that maybe you are not hearing and I have seen some who did not show up for work the day after a weekend of partying and that is also a reason they will never get ahead in life.Lets face it, there are many expats working in the Philippines like yourself and are making money doing what they know how to do, and if they can do it, so can a Filipino, the opportunities are often there if people search for them and look for them and while the opportunities may not be many, there are many successful Filipinos out there and therefore there has to be a difference between their work ethic and the others who may never even try. I look at my own nephew who we sent to college and to summer school almost every year during college and then sent to a refresher course or preparation course for the exam, yet he failed. I feel he did not study enough on his own and spent too much time doing other things and had he studied harder, then he would have passed that test and would have gotten his license and then I probably could have gotten him a job or he could have gotten the job he had lined up and was accepted for, if only he had his license. Now you may say that my nephew did not pass the test because it was too hard, but many did pass the test and when I was younger I took many tests and passed them and I was not highly educated and I feel that I am stupid compared to many people that I have met in my life who are highly educated, but the difference is that I went that extra mile and studied my ass off to make sure I passed those tests and got myself those jobs when competing against tens of thousands of other applicants and BTW, back then I did not even finish high school and had to take an equivalency exam to qualify for those jobs, because my father had a brain tumor and I had to work, so I know that it can be done and had you or I been born Filipino and in the Philippines, I know I could have made it and I am pretty sure you would have too. Seek and ye shall find, sit on your ass and drink and the job will not come to you.Now I have to say again, that I am talking about some Filipinos and not all because many are not like what I am saying and many I have met during my years are very hard working and usually successful but now with the recession all over the world, many I know are also having a hard time of it but so are many people of all races all over the world. Again, Filipinos tend to spend and live for today and many I have met have to have the best cell phone and the nicest car or truck and the nicest watch and jewelry etc. They often buy those things on time payments that they really cannot afford because of the attitude of live for today and had they drove an old car or used an average cell phone that they could afford to buy for cash, then they might be able to save the difference for their future but it is much easier to buy large items on time payments and Filipinos are not alone in that habit but many people like myself who got where I am today, got there by doing without and I have found that is not a trait that many Filipinos follow.So in closing I would like to say, that many of us need to get out there and be friends with average Filipinos so maybe we can help them to help themselves. I know that I am doing my best to do just that and that I might help a stranger more than some members of our own family because that stranger goes that extra mile and I also try to gather up those strangers that I find that go the extra mile and make them part of my close circle of friends. I often reward those that do more and I give nothing or little to those who do not help themselves.

[Mik]

At least they are willing to work and don't make a career living off government handouts like people do in my home country.

[Mike S]

How true Mike ....... if you took all the dead-beats in the US on welfare ...... unemployment (not the ones forced from their jobs) and other give away programs I just wonder if maybe it would begin to look a lot more like the Phils ...... as for being lazy ... just go to a job fair or go by one sometimes and see all the people applying for work .... standing in line for hours in the hot sun just to get in the door ..... lazy ...... no way ..... how about all you spoiled construction workers out there just try constructing something with out using any power tools and see how quick you change you mind on these lazy Filipinos ........ It is so much easier to find fault with a people while not understanding the culture ...... how much ambition do you suppose it takes to keep getting a job time after time only to be laid off after 6-8 months because your employer doesn't want to pay you the 13th month extra pay ...... and try working in the US for the benefits offered here if offered at all ....... sure makes me want to get a job here ..... Yes there are good jobs and employers here ..... heck ... you can be a yaya and earn 1200p plus board per month ..... dried fish ... rice and shrimp paste for a steady diet ..... sleeping on a mat on the floor ..... 1-2 days off per month ...... yup ..... wanna try that in the US ........ hell ... a baby sitter wants $12.00 per hour and all the food they can consume in an evening ..... Lazy ...... sure ...... but when you are raised in a society that only preaches failure rather than success what can you expect ...... and like with everything there are exceptions to every rule ...... the squatters on the other side of us work all day making all kinds of home-made items and when they aren't doing that then they are cutting and bundling firewood to sell ...... sound like anyone you know on welfare in the US ....... living in their government sponsored housing ..... driving down to the store to spend their food stamps on steaks and other food items ...... then driving back home to sit in front of their TV and wait on their next hand out ....... so don't single out the whole Filipino race as being lazy ....... IMHO

[TheMason]

How true Mike ....... if you took all the dead-beats in the US on welfare ...... unemployment (not the ones forced from their jobs) and other give away programs I just wonder if maybe it would begin to look a lot more like the Phils ...... as for being lazy ... just go to a job fair or go by one sometimes and see all the people applying for work .... standing in line for hours in the hot sun just to get in the door ..... lazy ...... no way ..... how about all you spoiled construction workers out there just try constructing something with out using any power tools and see how quick you change you mind on these lazy Filipinos ........ It is so much easier to find fault with a people while not understanding the culture ...... how much ambition do you suppose it takes to keep getting a job time after time only to be laid off after 6-8 months because your employer doesn't want to pay you the 13th month extra pay ...... and try working in the US for the benefits offered here if offered at all ....... sure makes me want to get a job here ..... Yes there are good jobs and employers here ..... heck ... you can be a yaya and earn 1200p plus board per month ..... dried fish ... rice and shrimp paste for a steady diet ..... sleeping on a mat on the floor ..... 1-2 days off per month ...... yup ..... wanna try that in the US ........ hell ... a baby sitter wants $12.00 per hour and all the food they can consume in an evening ..... Lazy ...... sure ...... but when you are raised in a society that only preaches failure rather than success what can you expect ...... and like with everything there are exceptions to every rule ...... the squatters on the other side of us work all day making all kinds of home-made items and when they aren't doing that then they are cutting and bundling firewood to sell ...... sound like anyone you know on welfare in the US ....... living in their government sponsored housing ..... driving down to the store to spend their food stamps on steaks and other food items ...... then driving back home to sit in front of their TV and wait on their next hand out ....... so don't single out the whole Filipino race as being lazy ....... IMHO

Well said Mike. People here work damn hard to eke out a diet of dried fish and and a mat to sleep on. When you put a Filipino in a Western country, they generally work rings around their Western counterparts. Given the opportunity, Filipinos are some of the hardest working people I've met. Lazy Filipinos are like the women who scam foreigners online. They are not the norm and give their countrymen a bad name.

[Mr Lee]

Let it be known that I did not call all Filipinos lazy, but even from the sampling of many that I know or have known, and some of our own family, some are very lazy and others are very hard working and while the system in the Philippines often makes it hard to get a good job for many, jobs do often exist if a person looks hard enough for them. I myself have given quite a few of our family the opportunity to better themselves and IMO they or their parents were just too lazy and did not have the insight to see the light at the end of the tunnel and just wanted the quick fix, and the quick fix does not work for their future or that of their families. I think all that many of us have to do is look at our own new extended families to see what I am talking about, there are those who made it and educated themselves and worked hard to get ahead and then there are those who depended on the others who do all the work and earn the money, and the only difference is that the money that arrives each month is not from the government but from their own hard working family member and until the people who sit back and wait, get some pride in themselves and refuse to be helped and that goes for in the US and elsewhere as well, then nothing is going to change. How many people do we know that have faced the same adversities Mike S mentioned, yet refuse to sit back and wait for the check. Many of us are married to them. Mike S pointed out some valuable points, even in some squatter areas, many find ways to feed their families, so there are ways to earn money and not just sit home and wait for it to flow in. Filipinos as a whole are the most ingenious people that I have ever met, and they often use the most ingenuity to get things done when they want to do them, but most poor that I have met never plan for tomorrow and even when given a month or years worth of money, will often blow it and spend it frivolously rather than in a way that might earn them money. I have known this first hand way too many times. :1 (103): Please tell me, why is it that so many poor people seem to have cell phones and not only cell phones but fancy camera cell phones, and often not just one to a family but sometimes one to each person in the family, while many of those same people come from families that cannot even afford to eat regular meals? Priorities are kind of mixed up, don't you think?

[Jollygoodfellow]

How true Mike ....... if you took all the dead-beats in the US on welfare ...... unemployment (not the ones forced from their jobs) and other give away programs I just wonder if maybe it would begin to look a lot more like the Phils ...... as for being lazy ... just go to a job fair or go by one sometimes and see all the people applying for work .... standing in line for hours in the hot sun just to get in the door ..... lazy ...... no way ..... how about all you spoiled construction workers out there just try constructing something with out using any power tools and see how quick you change you mind on these lazy Filipinos ........ It is so much easier to find fault with a people while not understanding the culture ...... how much ambition do you suppose it takes to keep getting a job time after time only to be laid off after 6-8 months because your employer doesn't want to pay you the 13th month extra pay ...... and try working in the US for the benefits offered here if offered at all ....... sure makes me want to get a job here ..... Yes there are good jobs and employers here ..... heck ... you can be a yaya and earn 1200p plus board per month ..... dried fish ... rice and shrimp paste for a steady diet ..... sleeping on a mat on the floor ..... 1-2 days off per month ...... yup ..... wanna try that in the US ........ hell ... a baby sitter wants $12.00 per hour and all the food they can consume in an evening ..... Lazy ...... sure ...... but when you are raised in a society that only preaches failure rather than success what can you expect ...... and like with everything there are exceptions to every rule ...... the squatters on the other side of us work all day making all kinds of home-made items and when they aren't doing that then they are cutting and bundling firewood to sell ...... sound like anyone you know on welfare in the US ....... living in their government sponsored housing ..... driving down to the store to spend their food stamps on steaks and other food items ...... then driving back home to sit in front of their TV and wait on their next hand out ....... so don't single out the whole Filipino race as being lazy ....... IMHO

:1 (103): A very well thought out post that is true to the way things are. :thumbsup:

[Travis]

lazy people on a whole NO dependent on their young YES way too much