LTO Registration and Transfer Of Ownership

[OnMyWay]

I'm hoping to get some comments from those with knowledge or experience with these LTO topics.

When we bought our first car here, an Avanza, the seller, who was PNP and a nice young guy, gave us a previous deed of sale in addition to the one we completed.  He never changed ownership with LTO and the CR / OR were in the seller's name who sold it to him (and I think that was the original owner).  The car was clean according to the LTO text service.  We never changed ownership at LTO either, but we were able to register the vehicle with just the deeds of sales (2).  When we sold, we completed a new deed of sale.  So now there were 3 deeds of sale with the OR/CR, and no official LTO change of ownership.  We sold to the uncle of a SIL, and he said fine, no issue.  I have not heard that they ever had any issues and in fact, BIL borrowed the car to visit us a few times.  I think the uncle still owns it but I don't know if he ever changed the ownership at LTO.

I have heard, maybe here on the forum, and read at a few unofficial websites, that this is acceptable practice in the Philippines.  Vehicles are often passed along with just a deed of sale, and the ownership on the CR/OR does not get changed.  Is this correct?

If so, what is the upside or downside to both that scenario and to doing an official change of ownership?

Now, onto my current vehicle.  I bought it 6 months used from a Brit in Makati.  It came with 3 years LTO when he bought it new, and that should be still in effect until November 2017.  We did not register it it in our name, nor transfer ownership.  We just have the deed of sale.  The reason for not registering it or changing ownership is that we figured we would be throwing away 3 years (2.5) of paid LTO.   With the registration coming due, I have been researching the change of ownership, and I see the downsides to doing that.  It is somewhat of a hassle to get all the requirements, and apparently we will have to pay MVUC of p12,000 because my vehicle is heavy and less than 5 years old.  From the LTO website:

20. TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP OF PRIVATE MVs

Requirements
♦ Original copy of the Certificate of Registration (CR) or Certificate of Registration Encumbered (CRE)
♦ Original copy of official receipt of payment of latest MVUC and other fees
♦ Original copy of the Deed of Sale/ Transfer/ Conveyance
♦ Confirmation of CR/OR in case the transacting district office is different from the district office that issued the current certificate of registration
♦ Deed of sale with assumption of mortgage with bank's conformity
♦ Written consent from the financing company in case of CRE
♦ PNP-HPG MV Clearance Certificate
♦ Duly accomplished and approved Motor Vehicle Inspection Report (MVIR)
♦ Appropriate Insurance Certificate of Cover
♦ Taxpayer’s Identification Number (TIN)

MVUC charge here:

http://www.lto.gov.ph/motor-vehicle-registration/314-schedule-of-motor-vehicle-user-s-charge-pursuant-to-r-a-8794-and-other-fees-and-charges.html

So, I'm thinking about not doing a transfer of ownership and leaving it in the Brit's name who I bought it from.  My insurance is in my name and they don't seem to care if the OR/CR are still in his name.  I will just pay up the registration.  Downsides?

One other question.  I understand the LTO renewal schedule by plate number to a certain degree.  My plate ends in 00 so I am supposed to renew in the last week of October, latest, or the month before.   What is confusing is the 3 paid up years of LTO.  The CR is dated 11/28/2014 but there is no expiration date on it.  Would my registration renewal be due Oct 2017, or if I am lucky, October 2018?  I will ask at LTO but I thought someone might know how this works.

[robert k]

Does your bill of sale include a copy of the sellers picture ID? That was a requirement at one time and may be again. or still is.

I think you can get away with leaving a vehicle registered to the original owner until one day things will change and then you can't. I wouldn't want to island hop with a vehicle that was not in my name.

When I went to pay the registration/ tax, I wouldn't show my bill of sale because the tax collector generally doesn't care who pays the tax, only that the tax is paid.

[OnMyWay]

Just now, robert k said:

Does your bill of sale include a copy of the sellers picture ID? That was a requirement at one time and may be again. or still is.

I think you can get away with leaving a vehicle registered to the original owner until one day things will change and then you can't. I wouldn't want to island hop with a vehicle that was not in my name.

When I went to pay the registration/ tax, I wouldn't show my bill of sale because the tax collector generally doesn't care who pays the tax, only that the tax is paid.

Yes, 3 copies of his id with 3 signatures too.

[Dave Hounddriver]

6 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

Yes, 3 copies of his id with 3 signatures too.

Your mileage WILL vary.  But I just sold a motorcycle 10 days ago and the purchaser and myself sat with a lawyer who completed the transfer deed for us.  She told us that the LTO is now requiring TWO pieces of photo ID from the seller (3 copies of each).  I did not confirm with the LTO that they are enforcing that yet but be sure it is coming.  So if you have any vehicles still in the seller's name it may be advantageous to put them in your name before that requirement gets enforced.

The downside to registering it in your name is that any old debts they can find or make up will be your responsibility.  For example, a 20 year old pick up truck I decided to register in my name turned up as being imported 15 years back and no one paid the customs duties (very common for certain vehicles) so I got stuck with a 20K peso bill to "fix" it.  You will not know about any such cans of worms until you open them and then it is too late to put the lid on.

So as my dear old Dad used to say:  If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (He may have had the mindset of a filipino at heart but was a real Londoner by birth).

[OnMyWay]

6 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Your mileage WILL vary.  But I just sold a motorcycle 10 days ago and the purchaser and myself sat with a lawyer who completed the transfer deed for us.  She told us that the LTO is now requiring TWO pieces of photo ID from the seller (3 copies of each).  I did not confirm with the LTO that they are enforcing that yet but be sure it is coming.  So if you have any vehicles still in the seller's name it may be advantageous to put them in your name before that requirement gets enforced.

The downside to registering it in your name is that any old debts they can find or make up will be your responsibility.  For example, a 20 year old pick up truck I decided to register in my name turned up as being imported 15 years back and no one paid the customs duties (very common for certain vehicles) so I got stuck with a 20K peso bill to "fix" it.  You will not know about any such cans of worms until you open them and then it is too late to put the lid on.

So as my dear old Dad used to say:  If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (He may have had the mindset of a filipino at heart but was a real Londoner by birth).

Yes, luckily, I have copies of his DL and his passport.  He is still working in Manila so I could probably get in touch with him if needed.

We did not get the deed of sale notarized.  That was not an issue when I registered the first car, the Avanza.  I could probably get it notarized.  Is it true that notarys typically charge 1% for this?

[robert k]

9 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

Yes, luckily, I have copies of his DL and his passport.  He is still working in Manila so I could probably get in touch with him if needed.

We did not get the deed of sale notarized.  That was not an issue when I registered the first car, the Avanza.  I could probably get it notarized.  Is it true that notarys typically charge 1% for this?

I'm not totally sure a notary will notarize the signature of someone who isn't present...but anything is possible I suppose. Some ask 1%, some ask more and some have a set fee.

[Dave Hounddriver]

9 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

Is it true that notarys typically charge 1% for this?

The ones I have used, (two different lawyers this past month by coincidence), both charged a minimum 500 pesos for drawing up and notarizing the sale of a vehicle priced at up to 100K in sale price.  They said they charge more for higher priced vehicles but I did not ask how much more, I just agreed with the seller to put 100K on the bill of sale.

I can say for sure that notarized bill of sale for a used vehicle is now essential at all LTO's I have had dealing with, but I have also found that certain notaries are willing to say they witnessed a signature without the seller being present.  Kind of defeats the purpose but they seem to realize its "just paperwork".  They generally charge quite a bit more for doing it that way.

[AlwaysRt]

19 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

The ones I have used, (two different lawyers this past month by coincidence), both charged a minimum 500 pesos for drawing up and notarizing the sale of a vehicle priced at up to 100K in sale price.  They said they charge more for higher priced vehicles but I did not ask how much more, I just agreed with the seller to put 100K on the bill of sale.

I can say for sure that notarized bill of sale for a used vehicle is now essential at all LTO's I have had dealing with, but I have also found that certain notaries are willing to say they witnessed a signature without the seller being present.  Kind of defeats the purpose but they seem to realize its "just paperwork".  They generally charge quite a bit more for doing it that way.

I missed the 'bill of sale' deal when I sold my rouser in May. Registration was due in June and he had no problem renewing 'for me', no bill of sale, no copy of ID.

[robert k]

1 hour ago, AlwaysRt said:

I missed the 'bill of sale' deal when I sold my rouser in May. Registration was due in June and he had no problem renewing 'for me', no bill of sale, no copy of ID.

And there may never BE a problem as long as the motorcycle stays on Negros. I wouldn't go island hopping with it.

[Gator]

On 7/29/2017 at 1:33 PM, robert k said:

I wouldn't want to island hop with a vehicle that was not in my name.

 

37 minutes ago, robert k said:

And there may never BE a problem as long as the motorcycle stays on Negros. I wouldn't go island hopping with it.

Why?

Seems to me that if the LTO and insurance companies don't care, then why would the shipping / ferry companies as well as the Coast Guard (they also require copies of the OR/CR) care?

Although I carry a copy of the bill of sale from the dealer for my bike (bought a repo'd one a few years back), I've never been asked for it - whether island hopping or at a PNP check point. It's precisely for some of the reasons / hassles already mentioned that I never bothered to transfer it. 

 I've also rented cars from private ppl and gone island hopping (Camotes and Bohol) and never had a problem. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Gator