Barcelona

[stevewool]

Lots of answers here on what we could do or like to do too.

Europe is Screwed, maybe , maybe not , but you must include the free world in this sentence.

More armed police even special forces walking our streets and make sure that if anyone attempts an attack  will be killed.

Like i have said we was walking down the same road and the armed police walking in twos machine guns held , i felt very safe and i dont have a problem seeing this in our streets , airports or anywhere , but you do get the few who would think this is wrong.

Singing songs  holding hands even burning candles will not stop these evil young people killing you or i, but a bullet to there head will.

Again maybe these people was known to the police ,but as a free country you cannot do anything until they strike, maybe that has to change.

[robert k]

Spain kicked the muslims out once, europe can do it. It will just take a few hundreds of years of strife. People who are soft now will become hardened, eventually.

[Kuya John]

5 hours ago, Snowy79 said:

I think if we implemented those ideas religion would go the way of the steam train and be no longer a viable business route and soon it'll die out.

Edited 5 hours ago by Snowy79

Snowy

Religious ideology, in any shape or form gives people a sense of hope in a divided world.

While I may not be able to  prove to you what I choose to believe, nor can you explain away 2000+ years of slowly uncovering evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ and therefore the foundation of Christianity. (note religious discussion is not permitted but I demand the right to answer you statement)

"He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper."

Edmund Burke.....Reflections on the Revolution in France (1790)

[Reboot]

14 hours ago, Snowy79 said:

In the 21st century it's about time we used the media to our benefit and not as we can see to cause hatred. We know in many countries the Government can block almost any content they wish. Maybe it's about time we stopped reporting on anything religious or terrorist related, as far as I can see it just fuels the fire 

I'd even go one further and give all religions one year for their God to turn up in person or admit it's just a pile of bull designed to fool the needy and insecure, I'd make religion illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to be subjected to it and I'd also tax all religions at 40% and use the money for real aid and not for building mega mosques or churches. Maybe even make them give a further 25% of their income to an opposing religion. We'd soon see where love they neighbour kicks in.

I think if we implemented those ideas religion would go the way of the steam train and be no longer a viable business route and soon it'll die out.

You're as bad as the Muslims. Fact is, most get along OK except one. I've yet to fear a hijacking bombing or vanning in the name of Jesus Moses or Buddha, nor worry about that Sikh behind the counter or Hindu either acting in the name of their religion. 

[Snowy79]

5 hours ago, Reboot said:

You're as bad as the Muslims. Fact is, most get along OK except one. I've yet to fear a hijacking bombing or vanning in the name of Jesus Moses or Buddha, nor worry about that Sikh behind the counter or Hindu either acting in the name of their religion. 

I think you need to do a little research before making the generalisation that we all get along. In the West I'll agree we are more tolerant than most countries but you only need to look at the Catholic and Protestant issue in Northern Ireland and the thousands of deaths. Bosnia and Serbia to the East, Christians and Muslims in Africa and areas of India, Budhists and Muslims in Myanmar, Saudi Arabia and everyone that's not a Muslim. I could go on but in reality the only real areas people get along is in civilised areas where there are a good mix of different religions and laws to protect religious diversity.

As long as people are convinced their beliefs are correct and everyone else is wrong we will continue to have the likes of the attacks we are seeing.  We need true facts, education as to how certain stories came about about their beliefs and debunk them. Show them they are being played. We spend air time trying to make someone out to be a fool for quoting something that they repeated about a thing that may have happened 100 years ago but as we have no real evidence it could have happened the guys an idiot, yet there's people that believe things that were written in one language between 100 to 300 years after the events were meant to have happened in a time where historians agree story telling was very common. It was then re written in different languages changed a few times over the space of a few thousand years, involves feats of magic yet it must be true and if you don't believe it you're an infidel and deserve to die.

Too many people try to make excuses yet when you point out facts they don't want to listen. I'm not American yet America keep hearing a certain religion is just retaliating for things that America has done on the World stage but when you ask why the same religion was doing worse things before America was founded they stick their fingers in their ears. 

Basically Barcelona, London, Nice and all the other terrorist activities we are seeing today is down to peoples education on certain subjects

It's probably a good time to close this topic as I'm sure it can get too involved with people arguing over religion but it's hard to discus something that has obviously got religion at it's roots. If anyone wishes to prove me wrong please PM me rather than drag the thread down I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[Dave Hounddriver]

6 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

It's probably a good time to close this topic as I'm sure it can get too involved with people arguing over religion but it's hard to discus something that has obviously got religion at it's roots

Since JGF judged a related thread to be too political, you may be correct that this thread is getting too religious. I will trust the members to refrain from commenting further if their comments have religious or political connotations.

[Reboot]

50 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

I think you need to do a little research before making the generalisation that we all get along. In the West I'll agree we are more tolerant than most countries but you only need to look at the Catholic and Protestant issue in Northern Ireland and the thousands of deaths. Bosnia and Serbia to the East, Christians and Muslims in Africa and areas of India, Budhists and Muslims in Myanmar, Saudi Arabia and everyone that's not a Muslim. I could go on but in reality the only real areas people get along is in civilised areas where there are a good mix of different religions and laws to protect religious diversity.

As long as people are convinced their beliefs are correct and everyone else is wrong we will continue to have the likes of the attacks we are seeing.  We need true facts, education as to how certain stories came about about their beliefs and debunk them. Show them they are being played. We spend air time trying to make someone out to be a fool for quoting something that they repeated about a thing that may have happened 100 years ago but as we have no real evidence it could have happened the guys an idiot, yet there's people that believe things that were written in one language between 100 to 300 years after the events were meant to have happened in a time where historians agree story telling was very common. It was then re written in different languages changed a few times over the space of a few thousand years, involves feats of magic yet it must be true and if you don't believe it you're an infidel and deserve to die.

Too many people try to make excuses yet when you point out facts they don't want to listen. I'm not American yet America keep hearing a certain religion is just retaliating for things that America has done on the World stage but when you ask why the same religion was doing worse things before America was founded they stick their fingers in their ears. 

Basically Barcelona, London, Nice and all the other terrorist activities we are seeing today is down to peoples education on certain subjects

It's probably a good time to close this topic as I'm sure it can get too involved with people arguing over religion but it's hard to discus something that has obviously got religion at it's roots. If anyone wishes to prove me wrong please PM me rather than drag the thread down I'm happy to be proven wrong.

My friend, I've done a fair amount of research.

Religion in Ireland was just a mask for a political and ethnic identity situation.

As for Bosnia/Serbia, Africa, areas of India, Myanmar, etc, the only common denominator is right in your post--Islam. 

As for the rest of your post, no amount of education changes the basic nature of humans. Humans are religious animals. Education will not change that.

Kill the old faiths, and there will be new ones.

The Marxists tried to kill the old faiths in lands they took control over, smashing churches and temples, and then, guess what-- Marxism became the de facto religious belief.

For many carrying a label of "nonbeliever" today, their politics is their religion. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Reboot

[Jollygoodfellow]

1 hour ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Since JGF judged a related thread to be too political, you may be correct that this thread is getting too religious. I will trust the members to refrain from commenting further if their comments have religious or political connotations.

Again this forum has rules designed to keep the peace between members, topics like politics, religion or even the great gun debate always upset someone so thats why there are rules.

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So at this moment I will not lock this topic as it's about a horrific world event but if members start to argue then I will. If you want to argue about religion best to take it to the pub and sort it out there. 

[Benington]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40988081

I would like to get this thread back to what we can do to defend against these attacks. Maybe the Spanish authorities will come up with something later. But are they more concerned about losing their tourism than learning from this event?

You can read from the link that the police are confident they have "dismantled the cell in Barcelona". Are they leaving themselves some wiggle room there? The regional Catalan government is more cautious. Because it seems that the van driver is still at large, contrary to earlier reports that he was killed in Cambrills. I think the van driver expected to survive the incident. He is therefore more likely to be a leader at some level. The others went on a more risky mission to a less crowded environment, where they must have known they could be isolated and killed. And that was what happened. Also, if you read down you will see that a car drove into a checkpoint after the outrage and a death occurred. The car was probably hijacked. So, at least one person, possibly an important one, and maybe one other involved at least. 

Soon after the Westminster and London Bridge attacks plans were announced to protect the public on those river crossings. Las Ramblas is of much greater length and a very much more complicated environment, but you would expect the authorities to announce they would at least look at the possibilities to improve public safety.

If you use the Barcelona link you can also navigate to a report on the Finnish attacks. The attacker was a Moroccan, as is the probable Barcelona van driver. Morocco is one of the more liberal Arab states, as is nearby Tunisia, but they supplied a high proportion of ISIS recruits for their population up to recently. Now the Caliphate is on its last legs and the orders have changed.

Spain is right in the danger zone.

[mogo51]

On 8/19/2017 at 8:15 AM, scott h said:

IMO that is still a passive measure. So vehicles of EVERY type are banned. So as they have done other places they carry knives in back packs. Are back packs banned next? If so, a fanatic can storm the kitchen of one of those restaurants in those areas and rampage. So all food must be prepared off site and then delivered and sold in tourist areas? Then a fanatic will put acid in a water bottle and spray folks in the face. Ban water bottles?

A wise general onse said "If you are not on offense you are on defense" and to my knowledge very few wars have been successfully won by being defensive.

I for one agree with you wholeheartedly Scott. The time for sticking the head in the sand must come to an end and soon.  As you say, the so called politicians and leaders, could not lead a horse to a water hole.  They are pathetic in every sense of the word.

Whilst I have not confirmed this and I no doubt will hear the screams of protest here - Israel do not suffer from terrorist attacks.

Why - because if a bomber or assassin commits a terrorist attack, the Israel response is swift and severe.  They not only kill the terrorist, but then hunt and find his family and exterminate all of them.  The result is that there are very few if not none, terror attacks in Israel.  Extreme radical action requires extreme response.

the world is in chaos and still these so called leaders 'deeply regret' every  time a number of innocent people are bombed or otherwise killed.  What a pathetic response.