Right to bear arms.

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, earthdome said:

The point being that the deranged person who shot all those people in Las Vegas could have just as easily used a large truck to kill and injure just as many in that outdoor concert venue.

Also, it is a verified fact that the Vegas guy had a lot of tannerite and some ammonium nitrate at his homes, so it is possible he had other plans in place to replace the gun attack if he could not pull it off, or for a secondary attack if he escaped.  I think the police said he had planned to escape.  That may be why the shooting stopped well before the police got to him and/or he killed himself.

His motivation is still unknown.  I'm curious to see if the authorities can pin something down and give the public an honest assessment.

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Jake said:

Hey guys,

So far, the comments are not too heated up, for or against.  I'm curious however, if any other countries have mandated their citizens the right to bear arms?  My understanding of the 2nd amendment was written for the sole purpose of civilian militias taking up arms against foreign invaders (plenty during that time) OR to stage a revolt against the government, which has its growing pains within other colonials at the time.  

Of course now, the right to bear arms takes up a whole new meaning, which includes the skilled hunters, gun enthusiasts, gun collectors, anarchists, left wing, right wing, preppers and doomsday zombie killers.  I support the 2nd amendment but I just don't understand why you need an assault weapon (including the Barrett 50 cal sniper rifle) to be considered part of your personal protection.  These were originally designed to go to war, killing people.  Attach or modify a kit to go full auto, then you're a really a good Rambo marksman (insert sarcasm -- how many rounds do you need to kill a deer?).  My current home defense is a can of pepper spray, wooden baseball bat, a long heavy duty flashlight and in the future, a small Glock.  

I believe we should strongly enforce all the existing gun control laws, not make up new ones.  By the way, what is the latest about potential buyers and/or licensed-unlicensed dealers at a gun show?  Cash and carry, no questions asked?  Is it still a big business of truck loads of firearms ending south of the border? 

Respectfully Jake , my thoughts and prayers to all the grieving families as their life has changed forever. 

I'm with Jake on most of this.

Most law abiding citizens who own large amounts of guns or assault weapons are enthusiasts / collectors.  Yes,  they can go crazy just like any other segment of society.  The only guy I knew who owned an assault rifle was a very responsible Fil / Am guy I worked with at LAX in the 80's and 90's, Joe.  He had quite a few guns as did others at work.  Good friend who was my ski buddy for several years.  Due to him and being close to many other Fil / Ams in that job, I know that they were crazy for guns, as a hobby, I guess.  I remember when Joe got his assault weapon, he took a couple of guys out to the range (with their weapons too) and his new assault weapon was the talk of the office for a few days.  (about 50% of staff was Filipino).  Joe was an avid sportsman full of energy, and guns were just one hobby.  He was the type of guy who could go surfing in the morning before work, wind surfing after work, then work his side business at night, then get up at three AM to join us for a ski trip!  Actual true story!  The guy only required a few hours of sleep every day.

By contrast, another Fil / Am guy I worked with there was bat shit crazy and I would never give him a gun, but he legally had a few hand guns.  I remember he would often say what he would do if someone wronged him or his family.  "I'll get my gun and shoot them!"

[Castaway]

The difference between legal rights and human rights also adds some complexity, though both create an entitlement. ... As a result, Americans are entitled to purchase, own, sell, and bear arms. Rights can create entitlements, and legally mandated entitlements can create rights, within their jurisdiction.

[Reboot]

By way of clarification, I'd like to know what people here refer to when they use the term "assault rifle."

[Reboot]

[Kuya M]

[scott h]

two edged editorial there Kuya John. When the second amendment was written, the militia men had roughly the same weapons as the British (some would say better as the brown bess was not accurate over long distance and the long rifle were). As the picture shows your NRA guy is armed with M16's just like our armed forces. Some supporters of the 2nd agree with that concept  

[Reboot]

9 minutes ago, scott h said:

two edged editorial there Kuya John. When the second amendment was written, the militia men had roughly the same weapons as the British (some would say better as the brown bess was not accurate over long distance and the long rifle were). As the picture shows your NRA guy is armed with M16's just like our armed forces. Some supporters of the 2nd agree with that concept  

When it was written, it meant the same sorts of hand carried arms a soldier used. What good would it be otherwise as a defense against tyranny?

[OnMyWay]

12 hours ago, Reboot said:

And many of these shootings on the list aren't like what happened in Vegas. They are the resulted of gang warfare in bad neighborhoods. This is where the majority of shootings takes place. Many of these places already have such restrictive gun laws it practically amounts to a ban....places like Chicago, where last year there were 762 murders, 3,550 shooting incidents, and 4,331 shooting victims.

This is my biggest problem with more gun controls.  They don't work to prevent criminals or crazy people from committing evil deeds.  I can sympathize somewhat with trying to keep assault weapons limited, but that is unlikely to really work against someone with purely evil motivations.  Using the Vegas guy as an example, based on current knowledge.  A very smart guy,  wealthy, and no criminal record.  Has the means to get anything he wants, legally or illegally.  Something in his brain snaps somewhere along the line.  How do you keep that type of individual from creating pure evil?

As Reboot said, most mass shootings in the U.S. involve gangs and drugs.  Some people are lacking moral character and don't have a problem spraying bullets into a party of rival gang members / drug dealers, and their family members including kids.  This is a different kind of crazy but it accounts for most of the problem in the U.S.  I assume most of those guns are illegally obtained and/or modified.  What do we do about that problem that is causing most of the deaths?  Due to this history of violence, these area have some of the most restrictive gun controls but they do not work against people who have complete disregard for the law and human life anyway.

I will call the Vegas guy a terrorist and lump him with other terrorist attacks, for purpose of discussion.

I don't think most of us worry about being killed or injured in large scale terrorist attacks.  Although the Vegas attack will surely make some rethink where outdoor events are held.  However, many people do worry about being a victim of crime in every day life, both personal and work life.  In some cities, crime is more prevalent than others so people might want a gun for protection and even seek a concealed or open carry permit.  A sad situation but true.

Regarding carrying of weapons.  I have two nephews who live in Albuquerque, New Mexico.  That place is a cesspool of crime and I don't know why they stay.  One nephew is a long distance truck driver.  Due to the frequency of robbery and hijackings, he has a license to carry.  Well justified, in my mind.  The other nephew is now doing well in real estate, but used to own a safe moving company and be a limo driver part time.  I'm not sure which job he was working at the time, but he was robbed at gunpoint and subsequently he got a license to carry.  He is 6 feet 8 inches tall, 300 lbs.  I think he still has the safe business and he still carries full time.

When I was in my 20's I was working in a warehouse late at night, in Eastern Gardena, CA.  We had an unarmed security guard.  Guy came in about midnight to rob us and the business.  Held his gun to the back of my head while he frisked me and took my wallet.  Same with the guard.  I have a strong feeling that the gun was not obtained legally.  Then he locked both of us in a closet while he ransacked the office.  Do I wish I would have been carrying?  Yes!  I am sure the guards there are now armed.  Would I work in the neighborhood again without proper protection?  No.

[Reboot]

3 hours ago, Jake said:

Hey guys,

So far, the comments are not too heated up, for or against.  I'm curious however, if any other countries have mandated their citizens the right to bear arms? 

Hi Jake, the answer to that might be Switzerland, depending on how you interpret their laws.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Switzerland

Another might be Israel and perhaps Russia.

Of course, the Philippines has relatively liberal gun regime compared to some of its neighbors.

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Reboot