Murder and Suicide

[AlwaysRt]

More specifically, Murder/Suicide from the murder of co-workers, bosses, family to a crowd at a concert.

Beyond the question of what makes someone take their own life, why do they decide to take others with them? (not talking about terrorism) If we can figure out what is happening in society that drives people to do this we can come up with an effective solution to the problem.

[Jack Peterson]

1 minute ago, AlwaysRt said:

If we can figure out what is happening in society that drives people to do this we can come up with an effective solution to the problem.

 Yes Steve it does make you wonder but is this not why we have Psychiatrists (on Suicide issues) and  Crime Profilers (on Murder issues?)

 Seems a lot of Money is being spent with no/little results and we the people have a need to discuss it here, with absolutely nothing to go on but  our own thoughts.

Last year a local in the next barangay committed Murder and then suicide. Works out that his wife Borrowed large amounts to repay gambling debts, So he shot the money Collector ( As he blamed him for loaning Money it is said locally) then he hung Himself outside his local chapel ( A note left said he Blamed the Almighty for failing him, this was never substantiated)   So as it is really all hearsay, where do you go.

 As i said surely this is why we have the so called professionals to solve mysteries that we are not Directly involved with But then, how can we or any layperson sort out things that originate behind Closed Doors?

 JMHO 

[AlwaysRt]

4 minutes ago, Jack Peterson said:

 As i said surely this is why we have the so called professionals to solve mysteries that we are not Directly involved with But then, how can we or any layperson sort out things that originate behind Closed Doors?

Yes I agree on the individual level, but there seems to be something in society that is pushing some people in that direction. I am sort of asking how did he get to the point of wanting to break his leg vs he needs a doctor to fix it. How do people like the Vegas shooter get there mentally? Stop them from the thought of picking up a gun to do something like that.

[Jack Peterson]

1 minute ago, AlwaysRt said:

How do people like the Vegas shooter get there mentally? Stop them from the thought of picking up a gun to do something like that.

No wonder the Filipina lady was judged to be Interesting to the Authorities then, 100000+ sent surely she should/would have know something about him but that is the After event, I agree that it is the lead up that needs  looking into But again as I say, we none of us I would suspect are anywhere near Trained or Educated in this field to give any accurate information on these things but then, are those that have the Diplomas and such? because and I agree with you something is very wrong. Then we have that good old Confidentiality thing with the Psychiatric and the Patient Doctor Clause.   Need to know, should know, must know but  you would Court Orders, to little to late methinks

[Castaway]

8 minutes ago, Jack Peterson said:

Then we have that good old Confidentiality thing with the Psychiatric and the Patient Doctor Clause. 

" According to a Finnish study, over one fifth of people who actually died by suicide had discussed their aim with a doctor or other health care professional during their last session."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/kc/suicidal-thoughts-ideation-193026

[Dave Hounddriver]

37 minutes ago, AlwaysRt said:

Beyond the question of what makes someone take their own life, why do they decide to take others with them?

There must be many reasons why this happens but I believe one of the prevalent ones is raising a "selfish generation" and countries that have more selfish people have more murder suicides, (keep in mind we are talking personal opinions and I have not done a ton or research on this).

Examples:  If I can't have my wife then you cannot either (Bang bang bang, wife lover and self are gone)

     If I can't have a happy life they you cannot either (dakka dakka dakka 50 other people and self are gone)

     If I can't have that money then you cannot either (Bang bang, bill collector and self are gone)

In the extremely selfish cases the shooter kills the one who has "offended him" and tries to escape to carry on his life.  But it all boils down (IMHO) to raising a generation or 2 of selfish, greedy people who believe the world owes them something and who misinterpret the right to the pursuit of happiness to being the right to be happy.  Two different things.

[AlwaysRt]

3 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

(keep in mind we are talking personal opinions and I have not done a ton or research on this).

I understand and the rest of your comment is spot on the type of thinking I was looking for. When something like Vegas happens the focus always goes to the tools (guns) and not being an expert on that subject does not hinder people from commenting. I was just wondering what (We) thought about why people think of turning to a gun as an option in the first place? Raising a selfish, entitled generation or two thinking 'it's all about me, screw everyone else' was never a good idea, no matter how good the intentions of the parents were.

[Dave Hounddriver]

6 minutes ago, AlwaysRt said:

Raising a selfish, entitled generation or two thinking 'it's all about me, screw everyone else' was never a good idea

We already have a topic on guns, so I hesitate to write this response but the two are inescapably linked.

When momma is raising a spoiled child and the child is taking his "spud gun" or bb gun and running around shooting other kids, momma takes the gun away and says you cannot have it back until you can be more responsible.

Since we are raising a generation of "overgrown kids" then the "big brother's" response has to be similar.  To tie this into the examples I gave in my response above, NONE of those people were criminals until they shot someone so saying "criminals will always get guns" is a straw  man argument.

In the example I gave of the guy who loses his wife to another man.  If there is no gun handy there will be a helluva fist fight.  Same with the bill collector example.  Can't say about the homicidal maniac as I don't know any.

[AlwaysRt]

7 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

We already have a topic on guns, so I hesitate to write this response but the two are inescapably linked.

When momma is raising a spoiled child and the child is taking his "spud gun" or bb gun and running around shooting other kids, momma takes the gun away and says you cannot have it back until you can be more responsible.

Since we are raising a generation of "overgrown kids" then the "big brother's" response has to be similar.  To tie this into the examples I gave in my response above, NONE of those people were criminals until they shot someone so saying "criminals will always get guns" is a straw  man argument.

In the example I gave of the guy who loses his wife to another man.  If there is no gun handy there will be a helluva fist fight.  Same with the bill collector example.  Can't say about the homicidal maniac as I don't know any.

Yes mama does that, but she does not run around the neighborhood taking 99 other kid's toys saying 'when Billy learns how to be responsible like you, then you can have your toys back'

and yes again, I started this topic to move focus from guns to the people who use them for evil, why, and how can we stop them from going down that rabbit hole. Society must be doing something to fertilize that thought process - a process thousands or more are in for every one that acts on it.

We (I'm probably focusing mostly on the US population) need to bring people together to discuss issues rather than continuously inciting the poisonous division that has increased exponentially in the last decade. 

[Snowy79]

I think there's going to be a whole lot more murderers in society as our population gets older and the services to look after them gets less and less, or those that have worked hard all their lives suddenly realise they will be paying for care yet those that sat on their butts will get it for free.

We have a large percentage of veterans with mental health issues now and they have the skill set to cause a lot of damage. I personally have a few friends who would think  nothing of going out with a bang. They feel they have been let down by their governments and now with the liberal agenda they are being made out to be the bad guys for just doing their job.  I don't think there's a day goes by without one of them commenting how fed up they are and it's about time someone sorted x out. I've even been down that route myself. I have no fear of death and believe once you're gone you're gone. There will be a short period of mourning then you'll be history.

Many a time I've played the scenario out about how I would like to spend my dying days if I was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Do I try to enjoy my final days while maybe dying a slow painful death or do I decide to help society out and rid it of some vermin before taking my own life? Decisions, decisions. 

It's the old scenario. Do I live out my days in an old peoples home getting spoon fed and my butt wiped or worse still be hidden from society behind the walls of my home, struggling to get a doctors appointment, the only visitors being carers who are allocated 15 mins per person to wash, feed and see to your needs twice per day or do I blow the brains out of some child molester, terrorist sympathiser, drug dealer etc?

The second option you go to jail with three meals a day, plenty of company, great health care, cable TV all your needs taken care of. Maybe the murderer isn't that crazy after all.