Citizenship or Not

[Gerald Glatt]

The upside to a spouse with filipino citizenship  is that if they travel on US passport their are no exit taxes on return to States, use the BB privilege and vacation as long as you like (upto a year).  

[KC813]

4 hours ago, Gerald Glatt said:

A foreign national must swear allegiance to US to become citizen.    

This is true.  The actual phrase in that section of the US naturalization oath is:  "... hereby declare on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;..."

If a Filipino becomes a naturalized US Citizen, then wants to retain or reacquire their Ph citizenship, they then have to take this oath:

"I _____________________, solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines and obey the laws and legal orders promulgated by the duly constituted authorities of the Philippines; and I hereby declare that I recognize and accept the supreme authority of the Philippines and will maintain true faith and allegiance thereto; and that I imposed this obligation upon myself voluntarily without mental reservation or purpose of evasion."

I've watched this process of reacquiring Ph citizenship many times, and I will admit the ethical implications of taking the second loyalty oath make me uneasy.  But, it's not me saying it, and different people have different personal standards.

4 hours ago, Gerald Glatt said:

A person born in the US must renounce his citizenship to take the citizenship of another country.

I may not be fully understanding your statement, but it is really hard to lose US citizenship just by taking up citizenship in another country.  Renouncing US citz is almost never required.

The basic rule is that you are a citz of any country that says you are their citizen.  About 1/2 of the world's countries say you lose citizenship if you take up citizenship in a different country.  The US is in the other half-- you do not lose your US citizenship.  Just like how you are required to renounce all other allegiances when you become a US citizen, it is that 'other' country's law that decides if you are still their citizen! 

So, any US Citizens, by birth or by naturalization, who take a citizenship oath in a different country that requires them to declare allegiance to that foreign country, rarely is this considered an "expatriating act" causing them to lose US citizenship.

The difficulty on renouncing US citizenship has let to some historically interesting stories.  The Warren Report detailed all of Lee Harvey Oswald's unsuccessful attempts to end his US citizenship.  Others who could never get it legally right included chess champion Bobby Fischer, Grace Poe and Perfecto Yasay Jr.!

 

 

[JJReyes]

CLARIFICATION: If you were born in the United States, you don't need to renounce or give-up citizenship to gain the citizenship of another country in certain circumstances.  The example is ancestry from a country with nationality laws based on "jus sanguinis" or "right of blood" in Latin.  Ireland recognizes not only the children of ( some nationality ) citizens who were born in Ireland, but also their grandchildren.  Another example is ethnic and religious Jews who can gain Israeli citizenship through the country's law of return.

[Lou49]

On 3/17/2018 at 1:05 PM, JJReyes said:

You can live in the Philippines after your wife becomes a US citizen under the Balikbayan program, assuming she was born in the Philippines.  If the return is permanent, there is a visa program offered by the Philippine Retirement Authority addressing this issue (i.e., no bank deposit required, reduced professing fee, etc.). You can also bring in a car and household effects, up to a certain value, on a duty free basis.

Land ownership is also permitted, but the the size for a residential plot and/or agricultural land is limited. 

Are u saying that a retired  ”foreigner” married to a Filipina can own a residential plot of land in his name ?

[Mike J]

11 hours ago, Gerald Glatt said:

A person born in the US must renounce his citizenship to take the citizenship of another country. 

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

Red high lite added by me.

Dual Nationality

Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals. Non-citizen nationality status refers only individuals who were born either in American Samoa or on Swains Island to parents who are not citizens of the United States. The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth. Or, an individual having one nationality at birth may naturalize at a later date in another country and become a dual national. 

U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship. However, persons who acquire a foreign nationality after age 18 by applying for it may relinquish their U.S. nationality if they wish to do so. In order to relinquish U.S. nationality by virtue of naturalization as a citizen of a foreign state, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Intent may be shown by the person’s statements and conduct.

Dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, and either country has the right to enforce its laws. It is important to note the problems attendant to dual nationality. Claims of other countries upon U.S. dual-nationals often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts of the U.S. Government to provide consular protection to them when they are abroad, especially when they are in the country of their second nationality.

U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law.  

[Mike J]

37 minutes ago, Lou49 said:

Are u saying that a retired  ”foreigner” married to a Filipina can own a residential plot of land in his name ?

That is not what JJ was saying.  The Filipina, as either citizen or former Philippine citizen (Balikbayan), would be listed as the owner and married to "John Doe a USA citizen") or whatever name and country of the spouse.  

[JJReyes]

4 minutes ago, Mike J said:

46 minutes ago, Lou49 said:

Are u saying that a retired  ”foreigner” married to a Filipina can own a residential plot of land in his name ?

That is not what JJ was saying.  The Filipina, as either citizen or former Philippine citizen (Balikbayan), would be listed as the owner and married to "John Doe a USA citizen") or whatever name and country of the spouse.  

Only citizens or former citizens of the Philippines can own real property.  It becomes more complicated if you have children, born in the United States, and the children decide to be US citizens only.  They inherit land in the Philippines.  What the law provides is a reasonable amount of time for them to sell. The word "reasonable" is not well defined.

[Gerald Glatt]

On 3/18/2018 at 9:43 PM, Mike J said:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

Red high lite added by me.

Dual Nationality

Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals. Non-citizen nationality status refers only individuals who were born either in American Samoa or on Swains Island to parents who are not citizens of the United States. The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth. Or, an individual having one nationality at birth may naturalize at a later date in another country and become a dual national. 

U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship. However, persons who acquire a foreign nationality after age 18 by applying for it may relinquish their U.S. nationality if they wish to do so. In order to relinquish U.S. nationality by virtue of naturalization as a citizen of a foreign state, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Intent may be shown by the person’s statements and conduct.

Dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, and either country has the right to enforce its laws. It is important to note the problems attendant to dual nationality. Claims of other countries upon U.S. dual-nationals often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts of the U.S. Government to provide consular protection to them when they are abroad, especially when they are in the country of their second nationality.

U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law.  

I thought that to take filipino citizenship you had to renounce US  by taking their oath.  I realize this can be done by saying the words, but, to renounce it must be done in writing and be accepted  by US.  It won't get you out of taxes or other bills, or top your pension.  I was also under the impression that a foreign national had to return to US every x years keep benefits.  

Personally,  such a thing even if legal would strike me as wrong....sorta like bigamy.  My father, was born in Calgary and his family returned to California when he was five, had to go to DC while in the US Navy accompanied by two RCMP officers renounce his (unknown) Canadian Citizenship and swear to US. He was reassigned to NY harbor raising ships there, meant Mom........so in the long ago when the British yhe Canadians and the US enforced immigration laws I was a result.

Wonder if that is why it is now don't ask don't tell.   

[GeoffH]

On 19/03/2018 at 12:47 PM, Mike J said:

That is not what JJ was saying.  The Filipina, as either citizen or former Philippine citizen (Balikbayan), would be listed as the owner and married to "John Doe a USA citizen") or whatever name and country of the spouse.  

 

I am unsure what the situation is where a Foreign national after 5 years (if married to a Philippine citizen) or after 10 years (of residence in the Philippines) applies for Citizenship of the Philippines and renounces their original citizenship (and is granted that citizenship).

 

Can that person then own land in the Philippines in their own name because they are now a citizen of the Philippines?

Edited March 21, 2018 by GeoffH

[Jack Peterson]

11 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

Can that person then own land in the Philippines in their own name because they are now a citizen of the Philippines?

 Good Point. Not sure we ever investigated that but then I am also not sure if Any Foreigner has attempted it that we have heard of.