Buying Land and Property

[Onemore52]

I have posted previously about Purchasing land and in the subject of my thread I suggested to people to "just don't do it", which was too sensitive a phrase for some members, to which I apologise for.

So the following is my encounters here and is the reason for which I would not do it again, at all.

Now before I start this, I have to mention that I have been coming here for four years on and off and that I met my partner on an internet site, and that we are both still together, her family successful in business where we live and have been here for a hundred years, anyway here goes:-

The first "For Sale" was 2-1/2 acres with a 3 bedroom home with a Nippa hut on it, river frontage reasonably priced and everything looked good until we asked for titles, the response "Sir we only have tax declarations for the last 5 years, but you will have no problems". Did some research and it was deceased estate from years previous with still lots of relative alive. PASS ON THAT ONE.

 

2nd experience:=

10 acres of virgin land with a river frontage, was used for cattle farming, the area being split into 3 parcels of land, 2 parcels of the land was previously used a quarry, of course being from the rivers edge, now further on this becomes an important issue, so remember this bit.

So we went to the seller, of course the intermediary was a real estate agent, all the qualification, yeah right Pig fly.

Having negotiated a price we started the titles search and yes the titles were there except that they were in different names, as bequeathed to the different relatives, no problems we started reaching out to each and every one of them to make sure that they were willing to sell, now this is where it got tricky, as two of them had been remortgaged to settle a debt, or some such thing, blah blah blah, you all know how this goes.

So while we were paying out deposits for the land, with subject to this and that, not owning the land but in the process through the correct agencies, one of the elders of the family showed up from Manila and was creating hell because he said that the land was sold too cheaply (he found out who was buying the land and wanted to squeeze some more out of it), so he went to a friend in one of the departments here and tried to freeze the sale, so then we had to give him a present for the purchase to go ahead, the folding paper type of present.

While we were doing the search of titles we saw that there was an access required to get to our 3 parcels of land, so then we had to find out who owned that land and negotiate a price for access, to which we did, a fair price I must admit.

Now the only time I showed my face was on the original inspection, and I was a visitor from the U.S. here to visit friends, it isn't easy for an aussie to pull that one off but I did my best.

So the purchase went ahead after 10 months of a lot of running around and making lawyers richer than they already were.

Time to go to the blocks and look at what we are going to do, but hang on while we were walking around the blocks we noticed that the markers had been moved on all 3 blocks, further investigation found that the bloke from Manila still owned 2  blocks one each either side of our 3 blocks, getting the picture folks?

Time to call the surveyors in to redo the boundaries and yes the pegs had been moved, 3 metres on one side and 1.5 metres on the other side.

This bloke still wouldn't go with it until 2 more visits from the surveyor, at our expense.

So after all this was done, and the markers cemented in place with supports all around them, photographs taken etc etc.

Back to the quarried site at the river, remember this from the start?

Our land stretched from the road and then at the river section it dropped 2 metres down to another level where it had been quarried, so we decided to put a fence well away from the edge to start building and started to do some planting on the lower side. Up comes bloke from Manila who says that the portion  below is not included in the sale, that he still owns that portion of land.

2 YEARS ON, we are still awaiting the outcome of that from the court.

But when you think I am finished, there is more:-

Sunday as we all know is a holy day and nothing much happens, so we thought we would go out to the blocks for a look see and make some plans.

On arrival at the blocks, cutting down all the coconut trees that had been there since Jesus was a boy was the previous owners, They were taking the coconut trees and the several stands of Bamboo at least 30ft high, they were all cut down ready to go.

Why you might ask? Well it goes like this " we might have bought the land but we didn't buy what was on it"  I am serious that uttered from their mouths!

Case 2

Many years ago after Jesus came back from the dead the family purchased 18 hectares of land out, away from town hardly accessible, on it they planted coconut trees, and everything was going good until there was some nasty people in the region causing all sorts of havoc, so the family decided it safer to stay away from the place for a while.

When the father of the family passed away last year, the eldest son sought to find out where all the property was, as his entitlement.

I will keep this short.

Someone in the lands office had changed the name on title without notifying the owners, I kid you not.

So the titles office threatened with legal action and maybe a phone call to a certain president, changed the name back to the rightful owner, but not all of the land, because the current owner had been paying land taxes, so they were entitled.

Forgot to mention, we put fences all around our properties with signs so the squatters dont come in, even a serious Nippa hut, together with beer garden and empty cans lying around to give it that "Lived in feeling"

I will save the rest for another day.

Wait, you say, there is more to this saga about purchasing land in the Philippines? NOT FROM US WE WILL NOT BE DOING THIS BS AGAIN.....

 

[Clermont]

Yeah they're like cockroaches coming out of the cracks when they think there is a meal around, the wife's son put a 100K full deposit on a pre selling house in a guarded compound and had the figures in black and white, they took his bank cheque and then told him he needed to deposit another 390K for the final deposit. He asked for the bank cheque back, ( he hadn't signed anything,) but they refused. No worries I told him we will stop the cheque and get our money back. Into the bank and after causing a bit of a stir and the police arriving the bank manager decided to see us. "Sorry sir we can't stop the cheque" Bulldust I'll get the Australian Embassy to sort this out, a quick phone call to head office and the cheque was stopped. Cost of stopping the cheque 100 Peso + 2000 Peso penalty and waited 3 days to put the money back into the account. It also cost 2 Jollibee meals for the cops.

What a lot of the lower working class PI's don't know, in some circumstances there are avenues that can be taken when someone is trying to diddle you and the crooks play on it. But being a foreigner bluff is my Ace, can you imagine what the Australian Embassy would have said if I rung them complaining about the bank, D###head is about all I would have got out of them.

Another thing, the partner always thinks they know the laws on buying property, but when a foreigner shows up, that is when the cockroaches come out. My tuppence worth, look at the place you decide on, work a price out with the owner, a very small deposit, then let a solicitor handle the transaction with instructions, that is all your going to pay, let him sort it out and if he can't walk away. 

 

[Snowy79]

I was having lunch today where I used to live in Sabang when an Aussie popped in. He said he had been visiting for about 10 years and was reminiscing about some of the resorts.  

He quoted 3 resorts that he said looked deserted. The barman then started telling me about legal battles over ownership.  It was costing so much money to fight that the resort owners had walked away.  

Also where I'm now living in Suli near Puerto Galera another ex pat who has lived here for about 30yrs was giving me the low down on the area.  Almost every lot and there's about 6 large ones in the area has involved a dispute.  Him included.  He has seperated from his partner of 15 years.  The land and house is in her name but he has an agreement to live there rent free until he bites the dust. For the last 6 months he's been having rocks thrown at house house on random evenings.  It's out in the sticks a bit with no street lighting so it looks like intimidation to get him to leave.  He was saying he's better off than his neighbour though.  His neighbour another foreigner has built a large house for him and his wife.  She convinced him to build a 3 story house on part of the unused lot to use as rental income.  It's just finished and she's moved the boyfriend in.  This boyfriend by all accounts is bad news so he can see the husband having an unfortunate accident to get him out of the way.  

[Snowy79]

A good news transaction for a change.  I'd been studying the pros and cons of land ownership including the legal aspects for over 3 years. 

I was having a random chat with my partner about 6 months ago considering the laws against single foreigners and how dodgy it can be to buy in your wives name with the amount of dodgy titles, attorneys etc.

She told me her family owned a decent amount of land near Moalboal. I asked whose name it was in and she said her Grandfather.  I asked how old he was and she said " he's dead".  I asked if the title had been changed and she looked at me as if I was stupid.  It turns out nothing had been done.  I informed her about siblings rights etc.  There were 7 siblings and each would be entitled to their share of the land even though only her father and brother lived there.  

For her fathers security I asked her to sort the land out legally as sometime down the line there will be family fights etc and they'll see money so fight over the best sections of land.  

She contacted the other 6 siblings and they assured her they don't want anything to do with the land as they live in Manila now.  She was happy with that but I told her to get it legally transferred or there will be trouble ahead.  Sure enough we had a little row but to prove me wrong she would see an attorney to transfer the shares.  

As soon as the papers were produced 2 siblings changed their minds and started arguing over the land.  We calculated the total land cost and on their signature gave them their share in Peso.  One other sibling settled on keeping an outside section of land. 

She now has a decent sized lot, clean titled near Moalboal which she says isn't worth much now, but I've pointed out once a road goes anywhere near the land it's value will shoot up and no one can take it away from her as it's been done legally and was always in her family name. 

Perks of being a Filipino I suppose. 

[Dave Hounddriver]

3 hours ago, Snowy79 said:

, clean titled near Moalboal which she says isn't worth much now

A lot near Moalboal is a good investment.  The place is still a second-rate tourist attraction but with Boracay's closure, it is growing in popularity.  Remains to be seen what happens to Moalboal when Boracay re-opens.

[Onemore52]

Good morning all, over a few beers last night I remembered some info left out of my post, I promise it won't be long.

Why we have gone to court to settle the land by the side of the river that was quarried is that there is this thing called RIPARIAN rights in the Philippines and it pertains to land at a waterway used for irrigation, similar to a high tide mark in other countries I suppose where normally you can't do anything with it.

Now seeing that this land is underwater when the river rises there is nothing much that can be done with it, the lands department know this but still we have to go to court to settle this, by the way the fella from Manila suggested that if we were to part with 40k he would forget about it and sign it off to us, no way Jose.

The other thing is about when I mentioned that they had chopped down the coconut trees and the stands of bamboo, or cane whatever you want to call it, that during the proceedings about the markers being moved we went to the Barangay Captain which is supposedly the first course of action and he said that there is nothing he could do about it, so suggested we go the police office which is about 1000m down the road, they said that it was out of their area and we should go to the main office in the city, which we did but there we were told the officer that handles this was not in that day, so we should come back the following week.

Nothing else to do but go back home and crack a few beers and throw the empties down on the river bank, to be collected later when we win this case.

On a different note, I have bought 2 used cars from family members in Manila and both cars have proven not to have been in a flood, odometers wound back, services as stated..Win some lose some.

 

[Mike J]

10 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

A lot near Moalboal is a good investment.  The place is still a second-rate tourist attraction but with Boracay's closure, it is growing in popularity.  Remains to be seen what happens to Moalboal when Boracay re-opens.

I can't speak for others but I hope Moalboal never becomes another Boracay even if it has to remain second-rate.

[Dave Hounddriver]

2 hours ago, Onemore52 said:

by the way the fella from Manila suggested that if we were to part with 40k he would forget about it and sign it off to us, no way Jose.

They do that because they know it will cost you way more in court and lawyer costs to win.  Sometimes the appearance of letting the other guy win is the way it is done here.

PhilSouth subdivision is a huge land development company here in Dumaguete.  The owner mentioned in my hearing that there are many times it takes years for someone to come out of the woodwork and make a claim on one of the pieces of property they bought.  The claim is often bogus but it gets paid off if the legal department believes that is the cheapest and most expedient option.  This is Philippiines.  This is how they do it here.   And this is why you can feel safe buying from a good developer.  They take care of the kind of thing that sticks in your craw.

[Dave Hounddriver]

2 hours ago, Mike J said:

I can't speak for others but I hope Moalboal never becomes another Boracay even if it has to remain second-rate.

I totally agree.  But wishing won't make it so.  Those dang young, foreign tourists keep coming to Moalboal.  More every year it seems.  And the local people are building on their property but not improving the roads at all.  Dang shame really.  I used to enjoy the drive from Dumaguete to Moalboal, spend a couple nights and then back to Dumaguete.  Last couple of times I noticed too many places with tourist pricing.  It started at Kawasan Falls where the locals found that tourists are ripe for the ripping and it seems to be working its way back to Moalboal.  IMHO only.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Dave Hounddriver

[Onemore52]

Dave, I hear what you are saying and normally would do things as you suggest, but this time not on your nelly,  as we have lawyers that do things at mates rates, especially when this bloke was the one moving the boundary pegs on us.