Scientists Warn the UN of Capitalism's Imminent Demise

[GeoffH]

3 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

. . .   and illegal immigrants will stock the shelves once at the stores 

We're only probably 15 to 20 years off shelf stocking robots (that cost less per year than minimum wage workers).

 

What will drive the implementation of that technology is cost savings, the same thing that's causing the increasing adoption of self checkout in shops.

 

Neither of those things mean 'the end of capitalism' but they are factors that will continue the increasing gap between the ultra rich and the poor and contribute to the shrinking of the middle class.

Edited August 29, 2018 by GeoffH

[bows00]

8 hours ago, earthdome said:

Sounds like a load of BS propaganda to me which will be used to justify increasing government interference in the economy. A true free market is much more efficient at meeting market demands than government central planning.

Totally agree. 

Recommend reading Ric Edelman's book "Truth About Your Future" which provides a realistic view of the future and our economy and how exponential technology is going to be shaping our world (in the near future).

[GeoffH]

1 minute ago, bows00 said:

Totally agree. 

Recommend reading Ric Edelman's book "Truth About Your Future" which provides a realistic view of the future and our economy and how exponential technology is going to be shaping our world (in the near future).

 

Various analysis suggest that technology is not in fact exponential but rather that it is in fact an S curve but because we've yet to reach the pivot point it merely appears exponential.  That curve change alters what happens... a lot.

[Dave Hounddriver]

5 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

the increasing gap between the ultra rich and the poor

Perhaps history repeats itself 

In my elementary school days, the teachers would try to make a similar point.  They were trying to make the point that we all should strive to do well in school because machines were coming that would dig ditches and chop trees and put thousands of manual laborers out of work if they did not have the education to get better jobs.

Fast forward 50 years and the guys operating that heavy equipment, with less than high school education in some cases, make more money than almost all the guys who listened to the teachers and went to school.

Lesson learned.

[GeoffH]

5 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Perhaps history repeats itself 

In my elementary school days, the teachers would try to make a similar point.  They were trying to make the point that we all should strive to do well in school because machines were coming that would dig ditches and chop trees and put thousands of manual laborers out of work if they did not have the education to get better jobs.

Fast forward 50 years and the guys operating that heavy equipment, with less than high school education in some cases, make more money than almost all the guys who listened to the teachers and went to school.

Lesson learned.

 

Yes there will be winners and losers, and the guys operating those machines are making more money than their fathers with their hand tools but there are a lot less of them doing those jobs than in the 1930s.  

 

For every industry that gets automated there are a smaller number of winners (who get new automated jobs and better working conditions) but a larger number of people who need new employment.  This is one of the major factors contributing to long term structural underemployment and unemployment and that's contributing to generational unemployment and the growth of a new underclass of 'never worked families' which is bad for society because it contributes to crime and unrest.

 

We need to create new jobs in new sectors to fix those structural problems but that's difficult...

[Jack Peterson]

7 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

We need to create new jobs in new sectors to fix those structural problems but that's difficult...

Yes! but was this not said in the 30's and no doubt way back Further, The Industrial Revolution was based on this and here we are seeming to have gone full Circle and not moving much further forward in creating but only of perfecting 

 Let's face it until the UFO or Spaceship is a day to day thing all we can do is make better Aircraft, you can't invent it twice , only update and maintain ahead of others in the process 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Jack Peterson
added a little

[Dave Hounddriver]

9 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

We need to create new jobs in new sectors to fix those structural problems

(Take this as a tongue in cheek comment  )

Yes. Imagine all the new call centers that will spring up in the Philippines when the shop owners can't get the new-fangled machines to work and they have to call customer service.  

[GeoffH]

1 minute ago, Jack Peterson said:

Yes! but was this not said in the 30's and no doubt way back Further, The Industrial Revolution was based on this and here we are seeming to have gone full Circle and not moving much further forward in creating but only of perfecting 

The difference now, unlike then is that we're a LOT closer to the pivot point on the technology S curve.

Before we could rely on new technology to create new jobs but as technology starts to mature and innovation starts to get replaced by mature industry new types of jobs will start to decrease in number.  We're not at that point yet but we're getting there. 

And increasing costs of recovering resources (which is not the same thing as running out, we're NOT running out) is causing reduced profit which reduces innovation as well.

 

[Jack Peterson]

3 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

The difference now, unlike then is that we're a LOT closer to the pivot point on the technology S curve.

 Quite but that situation is exactly what brought about the revolution in Industrial Technology in the first place. as for the rest that is down to the fat cats to sort out ( sorta needs to be discussed in the Topic o capitalisation methinks 

[StayAtHomeDad]

When I was a boy, stocking shelves in a grocery or department store seemed like a dream job to young boys in my area. We spent summers cropping tobacco or unloading potato/rice container trucks for just a few dollars a day. Guys who were lucky enough to get work in the stores just seemed so lucky to us. They made more money and didn't have to work nearly as hard. I guess that my point is that when people start demanding very large wages for relatively easy manual labor jobs, thoughts of turning to automation/robots are inevitable.

I am in now way trying to  say that people don't deserve a decent wage (they do), but it's ultimately the consumer or customer who will have to pay for those increased wages. And, while most people don't like the fact that jobs at Starbucks or Walmart don't pay much, they also don't want to pay much for their stuff.

It's only a matter of time until robots are cheap and advanced enough to replace non-skilled laborers on a mass scale. When that happens, I don't think European and Western countries will be nearly as attractive to would-be immigrants. I guess we'll see, though.