Mr Lee Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 While I am far from an expert on anything, and certainly not on the UK, yet the news seems to be saying that gun crime is going full steam ahead in the UK even with all their strict gun laws and crimes and gun crimes have actually gone up in the last 10 years, and if I am not mistaken the last ten years happen to be after those harsh laws were implemented. So how would some of the people who are so pro banning guns like to explain that? It sure seems like the UK is far from the perfect society that some British people like to portray it to be and it sure seems from reading this that it should be more than obvious that gun laws do not stop crimes, but if all countries would wake up and execute or lock away those who use guns in crimes, I believe gun crime would drop or at least there would be a lot less scumbags on the streets to commit any crimes. Making more laws or banning guns does not stop crime and that only take guns out of the hands of honest citizens and prevent them from being able to protect themselves and their families and even this article which was written and published in the UK clearly shows that. :th_exactly: The spiralling problem with gun culture was highlighted by figures that show 28 firearms crimes are committed in England and Wales every day.Home Office figures showed gun crimes rose by four per cent last year, the largest increase for three years.It follows a crackdown unveiled by Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, after the shooting of 11-year-old Rhys Jones by another boy in Liverpool last August.Police chiefs said the figures were concerning, while Tories said they showed Labour was "failing to combat violent crime and its causes". The Liberal Democrats said the data was "alarming".There were 10,182 firearms offences in the year to the end of September compared with 9,755 in the previous 12 months - an increase of more than 400 crimes, or more than eight every week.The rise is the biggest percentage increase since September 2004, when figures showed a five per cent increase in gun crimes.While gun-related deaths were down, from 55 to 49, the number of slight injuries, threats and non-injury incidents linked to guns increased.Victims' groups were appalled by the figures in the quarterly crime statistics released by the Home Office.Norman Brennan, a policeman who is spokesman for the Victims of Crime Trust, said Government initiatives to tackle gun crime seemed to make no difference."Children as young as 11 or 12 are carrying guns," he said. "The sad reality is that it is becoming so routinely reported by the press that a child has been shot that the shock value has been eliminated."Police chiefs said they were "concerned" about the rise. Bob Jones, the chairman of the Association of Police Authorities, said: "This is an area police authorities will want to monitor carefully."David Davis, the Conservatives' shadow home secretary, said: "These latest official figures show that Labour is failing to combat both violent crime and its causes."Mr Davis said the gun figures were linked to a steep rise in drug offences - up 21 per cent in the third quarter of last year. The number of drug crimes was 55,700, against 9,500 in the same period in 2006.He said: "Violent crime is fuelled by drugs and Labour's chaotic and confused policy on drugs. Drugs wreck lives, destroy communities and are a major symptom of our broken society."Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said: "Violent crime - including, most alarmingly, gun crime is still far higher than 10 years ago and has to be tackled much more vigorously."Overall recorded crime fell by nine per cent to 1.24 million offences in the third quarter.The British Crime Survey, a separate set of figures based on interviews with members of the public, showed there had been little change in people's perceptions of crime.The Home Secretary said she was pleased the risk of being a victim of crime was "at a historically low level".She said: "Enforcement is a key part of our approach to tackling drug harm."In 2008 we will tighten our grip on violence and anti-social behaviour, working with police and local partners."You can read the story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Violent crime is fuelled by drugs and Labour's chaotic and confused policy on drugs.It would have been more accurate to say "prohibition of drugs is fueling violent crime". Are beer truck drivers having battles over their turf? No. End prohibition, end the war on drug users. Doing that will end the violence over black market products because there won't be a black market.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) "28 Gun Crimes Committed In Uk Every Day"The article doesn't go into any detail about which offenses are included in "gun crimes". Are most of these "crimes" just for simple firearms possession? The police find a gun in your closet and bingo, you just commited a "gun crime"? A law abiding person possessing a firearm is not a crime - until a bunch of arrogant guys in suits make up some more rules and say "you can't do that or it's off to prison".. Edited October 27, 2009 by M.Morey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollygoodfellow Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 While I am far from an expert on anything, and certainly not on the UK, yet the news seems to be saying that gun crime is going full steam ahead in the UK even with all their strict gun laws and crimes and gun crimes have actually gone up in the last 10 years, and if I am not mistaken the last ten years happen to be after those harsh laws were implemented. So how would some of the people who are so pro banning guns like to explain that? It sure seems like the UK is far from the perfect society that some British people like to portray it to be and it sure seems from reading this that it should be more than obvious that gun laws do not stop crimes, but if all countries would wake up and execute or lock away those who use guns in crimes, I believe gun crime would drop or at least there would be a lot less scumbags on the streets to commit any crimes. Making more laws or banning guns does not stop crime and that only take guns out of the hands of honest citizens and prevent them from being able to protect themselves and their families and even this article which was written and published in the UK clearly shows that. you sure like to debate gun laws,, wheres Bruce???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lee Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) While I am far from an expert on anything, and certainly not on the UK, yet the news seems to be saying that gun crime is going full steam ahead in the UK even with all their strict gun laws and crimes and gun crimes have actually gone up in the last 10 years, and if I am not mistaken the last ten years happen to be after those harsh laws were implemented. So how would some of the people who are so pro banning guns like to explain that? It sure seems like the UK is far from the perfect society that some British people like to portray it to be and it sure seems from reading this that it should be more than obvious that gun laws do not stop crimes, but if all countries would wake up and execute or lock away those who use guns in crimes, I believe gun crime would drop or at least there would be a lot less scumbags on the streets to commit any crimes. Making more laws or banning guns does not stop crime and that only take guns out of the hands of honest citizens and prevent them from being able to protect themselves and their families and even this article which was written and published in the UK clearly shows that. you sure like to debate gun laws,, wheres Bruce???? One of our British members made a post in another thread telling us why the UK has no guns allowed now and it was due to a school shooting in 1996, and since the school shooting they outlawed guns and the gun crime has risen ever since then, and that article was written in the UK so no one can say it was us Americans twisting the facts, gun control does not work and never will, but crime control would work for all of us. This world is getting more and more violent and guns definitely are playing a part in the violence but the guns are not the cause of the violence and that article points out some issues such as drugs being the cause and I totally agree and Mike Morey also points out a position that if the drugs were legal then those gun related crimes might also stop. Prohibition of alcohol never worked in the US and a lot of people were killed back then and the only ones who got rich were the ones who had illegal booze, I am happy they made alcohol legal and they should also make drugs legal because if it was legal then many people would not seek it out. People want what is illegal or immoral, so legalize drugs and prostitution and a lot of crimes would stop IMO.Seems while gun crimes are going up in the UK they are going down in the US ever since it became legal for most US citizens without records to get permits to carry a gun. Common sense says that criminals like easy targets and a man or woman with a gun might get that criminal killed, so they have to be a lot more careful who they pick for victims. I realize that people from the US like myself and people from non gun countries will probably never agree because we are all brainwashed by our own systems, but people should read the news and see the facts for themselves and wake up to the reality that gun laws have not worked in some countries and cities and probably never will, the Philippines being a prime example and the post about the gun ban in the Philippines is what started this debate. Sorry but as long as I have a breath left in my body, I will always defend gun ownership by law abiding people. Edited October 27, 2009 by Mr. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 While I am far from an expert on anything, and certainly not on the UK, yet the news seems to be saying that gun crime is going full steam ahead in the UK even with all their strict gun laws and crimes and gun crimes have actually gone up in the last 10 years, and if I am not mistaken the last ten years happen to be after those harsh laws were implemented. So how would some of the people who are so pro banning guns like to explain that? It sure seems like the UK is far from the perfect society that some British people like to portray it to be and it sure seems from reading this that it should be more than obvious that gun laws do not stop crimes, but if all countries would wake up and execute or lock away those who use guns in crimes, I believe gun crime would drop or at least there would be a lot less scumbags on the streets to commit any crimes. Making more laws or banning guns does not stop crime and that only take guns out of the hands of honest citizens and prevent them from being able to protect themselves and their families and even this article which was written and published in the UK clearly shows that. 28 gun crimes commited every day in the UK..???.Gun Control Facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lee Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) While I am far from an expert on anything, and certainly not on the UK, yet the news seems to be saying that gun crime is going full steam ahead in the UK even with all their strict gun laws and crimes and gun crimes have actually gone up in the last 10 years, and if I am not mistaken the last ten years happen to be after those harsh laws were implemented. So how would some of the people who are so pro banning guns like to explain that? It sure seems like the UK is far from the perfect society that some British people like to portray it to be and it sure seems from reading this that it should be more than obvious that gun laws do not stop crimes, but if all countries would wake up and execute or lock away those who use guns in crimes, I believe gun crime would drop or at least there would be a lot less scumbags on the streets to commit any crimes. Making more laws or banning guns does not stop crime and that only take guns out of the hands of honest citizens and prevent them from being able to protect themselves and their families and even this article which was written and published in the UK clearly shows that. 28 gun crimes commited every day in the UK..???.Gun Control Facts. By James D. Agresti. Just Facts, June 10, 1999. Revised 6/27/08. http://justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp In the United States during 1997, there were 15,289 murders. Of these, 10,369 were committed with firearms. (2)* In the United States during 1997, there were approximately 7,927,000 violent crimes. Of these, 691,000 were committed with firearms. About 6,000 children were caught with guns at school in 1997 and 1998. Out of these, 13 were prosecuted In 1 year, 691,000 violent crimes were commited with firearms in the USA...........Thats a little more than 28 a day in the UK...Dont you think ??? What I think is that you seem to be missing the point, and your making this a UK issue verses the US issue is not what this is about and it is not the guns but the animals that use the guns and all the legislation banning guns in the world will not stop people from killing other people or getting or making guns, unless that legislation is directed towards putting the animals that commit those crimes with guns in jail or execute them. The story in your own news shows how ineffective gun control has been in the UK since gun crime has actually gone up since banning guns.Now I have my own theory on why the US has so much crimes and all one would have to do is look at the news stories and see who is commiting all those crimes, so a good start would be getting rid of all the illegal aliens and then putting all the other animals who use guns during crimes in jail or the electric chair but that will never happen. Now you can quote all the crime figures you want and I can quote how many guns are in the US and only a small percentage are used in crimes but that will not change your mind and nothing is going to show me that the UK with all its strict guns laws is effective at curbing gun crimes. Theoretically the UK has a very low percentage of guns in the hands of everyday people but a very high usage of guns in crimes. There are over 200 million guns in the US in the hands of everyday people, so how does that relate to your numbers! Edited October 27, 2009 by Mr. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 The UK is a very long way from being perfectbut, I believe gun control does have some bearing on violent crime.Population of the USA is about 5 to 1 of that of the UKViolent crimes commited with guns in 1 year in the USA was 691,000compared to crimes in the UK of 10,000, that is 69 to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lee Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 The UK is a very long way from being perfectbut, I believe gun control does have some bearing on violent crime.Population of the USA is about 5 to 1 of that of the UKViolent crimes commited with guns in 1 year in the USA was 691,000compared to crimes in the UK of 10,000, that is 69 to 1. But guns in the US are something like 200 million to the supposed zero in the UK and our gun crime is nothing compared to our gun ownership so more often than not guns are not used improperly. The US is also far from perfect but it is not the guns, and it is the people who use them improperly. Criminals in the UK manage to get guns even when there are totally illegal and criminals in the US manage to get guns even when it is illegal for them to have them. The one thing that does not make the news because it does not sell papers or make headlines is, just how many honest US people have been saved because they own guns and I can tell you that it is many and no one in the UK talks about how many of your honest citizens become victims of crimes because they do not have guns to protect themselves with. I happen to have friends who live in the UK and they tell me that home invasions happen all the time since the gun ban and they feel helpless and have had to move a few times because of safety issues. I just do not feel that it is justified to take anything away from honest citizens in any country because bad people use them wrong and the example I used for cars or alcohol could easily be used because many people who drive should not, because either they are poor drivers or drunk drivers, and many people who drink should not drink because they are mean drunks and seem to not know when to stop, but does that mean that I should not be allowed to drive or drink (not at the same time :23_11_62[1]: ) if I can do either without hurting anyone else or myself. I just wish the world would wake up and put the blame squarely where it belongs, on the criminals and the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lee Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 Boy, 10, shoots sis dead with 'toy gun' So who is to blame for this tragic death? Could it be the gun manufacturer, no it was home made and gotten in spite of gun laws, could it be the country for allowing people to own guns, no the gun was unlicensed and in the home illegally, could it be the child, no way they are innocents that need to be protected by their parents or guardians, so who is really to blame, to me it is whoever left that illegal gun lying around in a home that had no parent supervision, because both parents had to work, probably to survive, but shouldn't the children have been supervised by someone. At the end of the story it said no one would be charged and while I agree that the loss of a child may be punishment enough, to me the parents are responsible, but what the heck, I guess we can always take the easy route and blame the gun. ILOILO CITY , Philippines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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