johnb Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 The UK is a very long way from being perfectbut, I believe gun control does have some bearing on violent crime.Population of the USA is about 5 to 1 of that of the UKViolent crimes commited with guns in 1 year in the USA was 691,000compared to crimes in the UK of 10,000, that is 69 to 1. But guns in the US are something like 200 million to the supposed zero in the UK and our gun crime is nothing compared to our gun ownership so more often than not guns are not used improperly. The US is also far from perfect but it is not the guns, and it is the people who use them improperly. Criminals in the UK manage to get guns even when there are totally illegal and criminals in the US manage to get guns even when it is illegal for them to have them. The one thing that does not make the news because it does not sell papers or make headlines is, just how many honest US people have been saved because they own guns and I can tell you that it is many and no one in the UK talks about how many of your honest citizens become victims of crimes because they do not have guns to protect themselves with. I happen to have friends who live in the UK and they tell me that home invasions happen all the time since the gun ban and they feel helpless and have had to move a few times because of safety issues. I just do not feel that it is justified to take anything away from honest citizens in any country because bad people use them wrong and the example I used for cars or alcohol could easily be used because many people who drive should not, because either they are poor drivers or drunk drivers, and many people who drink should not drink because they are mean drunks and seem to not know when to stop, but does that mean that I should not be allowed to drive or drink (not at the same time :lol: ) if I can do either without hurting anyone else or myself. I just wish the world would wake up and put the blame squarely where it belongs, on the criminals and the system. Hi Lee, there is some confusion over the gun laws in the UK, more precisly gun licenses, there are a lot of legal weapons in the hands of the UK public paticullaly in rural locations where shotguns are used for pest control, before leaving the UK in 1996 I would guess that over half of the Guys that drunk in my local Pub had shotgun licenses and had weapons in there homes,I had three guns that I had to sell prior to leaving the UK, our gun application and requirments can be tricky especially for a firearms Certificate [different from shotgun license], also ammunition can only be purchased by valid gun license holders. but the fact remains unless you have a police record or proven psychiatric history as long as you comply with the requirments of your local constabulary there is know reason why you cant gain a license for either a pump action, side by side,over and under or Automatic shotgun [both the Auto and Pump do have two round restrictions]. there is know such thing as a license to carry for Joe Public in the UK.http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/guns-and-shooting/useful-stuff/firearms-lawJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lee Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 Hi Lee, there is some confusion over the gun laws in the UK, more precisly gun licenses, there are a lot of legal weapons in the hands of the UK public paticullaly in rural locations where shotguns are used for pest control, before leaving the UK in 1996 I would guess that over half of the Guys that drunk in my local Pub had shotgun licenses and had weapons in there homes,I had three guns that I had to sell prior to leaving the UK, our gun application and requirments can be tricky especially for a firearms Certificate [different from shotgun license], also ammunition can only be purchased by valid gun license holders. but the fact remains unless you have a police record or proven psychiatric history as long as you comply with the requirments of your local constabulary there is know reason why you cant gain a license for either a pump action, side by side,over and under or Automatic shotgun [both the Auto and Pump do have two round restrictions]. there is know such thing as a license to carry for Joe Public in the UK.http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/guns-and-shooting/useful-stuff/firearms-lawJohn Thank you for that John, I did not know all the details of the law but I have read a number of stories about people in the UK who used weapons or just defended themselves against criminals and end up getting arrested and end up sentenced. Below is some stories about those, so maybe many people would prefer not to own guns or hesitate to use them because they fear being imprisoned should they have to defend there homes and families. Father faces jail for killing a burglar A father of two faced jail at the Old Bailey today for killing an armed burglar he feared was endangering his children in the family home. Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, stabbed career criminal Roger Williams 12 times in the back and the back of the head after the intruder charged at him with a crowbar. Hastings was cleared of murder but found guilty of manslaughter on a 10-2 majority. He was refused bail by Judge Brian Barker who remanded him to Belmarsh maximum security prison pending sentence on 4 October. As he was led to the cells he told his sobbing wife Nicola: "Tell the kids I love them to bits." Williams, 35, had a record of burglaries dating back to 1983 as well as violence. Hastings told the jury he had armed himself with a kitchen knife after finding the front door of the Tottenham flat broken down. In the dark he thought the burglar was about to attack him with a machete and had struck out in selfdefence. The jury's verdict echoes the fate of Norfolk farmer Tony Martin who was convicted of murder for shooting an unarmed teenage burglar. Martin's conviction was reduced on appeal to manslaughter. Gas engineer Hastings, of Wood Green, who has a conviction for burglary, is separated from his wife the court heard. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-1254986-father-faces-jail-for-killing-a-burglar.doand this storyJustice Turned Upside DownI think the insanity of modern Britain in this regard has been pretty well advertised on NRO. The poster child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Hi Lee, there is some confusion over the gun laws in the UK, more precisly gun licenses, there are a lot of legal weapons in the hands of the UK public paticullaly in rural locations where shotguns are used for pest control, before leaving the UK in 1996 I would guess that over half of the Guys that drunk in my local Pub had shotgun licenses and had weapons in there homes,I had three guns that I had to sell prior to leaving the UK, our gun application and requirments can be tricky especially for a firearms Certificate [different from shotgun license], also ammunition can only be purchased by valid gun license holders. but the fact remains unless you have a police record or proven psychiatric history as long as you comply with the requirments of your local constabulary there is know reason why you cant gain a license for either a pump action, side by side,over and under or Automatic shotgun [both the Auto and Pump do have two round restrictions]. there is know such thing as a license to carry for Joe Public in the UK.http://www.sportings...ff/firearms-lawJohn Thank you for that John, I did not know all the details of the law but I have read a number of stories about people in the UK who used weapons or just defended themselves against criminals and end up getting arrested and end up sentenced. Below is some stories about those, so maybe many people would prefer not to own guns or hesitate to use them because they fear being imprisoned should they have to defend there homes and families. Father faces jail for killing a burglar A father of two faced jail at the Old Bailey today for killing an armed burglar he feared was endangering his children in the family home. Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, stabbed career criminal Roger Williams 12 times in the back and the back of the head after the intruder charged at him with a crowbar. Hastings was cleared of murder but found guilty of manslaughter on a 10-2 majority. He was refused bail by Judge Brian Barker who remanded him to Belmarsh maximum security prison pending sentence on 4 October. As he was led to the cells he told his sobbing wife Nicola: "Tell the kids I love them to bits." Williams, 35, had a record of burglaries dating back to 1983 as well as violence. Hastings told the jury he had armed himself with a kitchen knife after finding the front door of the Tottenham flat broken down. In the dark he thought the burglar was about to attack him with a machete and had struck out in selfdefence. The jury's verdict echoes the fate of Norfolk farmer Tony Martin who was convicted of murder for shooting an unarmed teenage burglar. Martin's conviction was reduced on appeal to manslaughter. Gas engineer Hastings, of Wood Green, who has a conviction for burglary, is separated from his wife the court heard. http://www.thisislon...ng-a-burglar.doand this storyJustice Turned Upside DownI think the insanity of modern Britain in this regard has been pretty well advertised on NRO. The poster child — poster geezer, I suppose we should say — for that insanity has been Tony Martin, the 58-year-old farmer who has been in jail since 1999 for discharging a shotgun at two burglars who had broken into his home. One of the perps died; the other was slightly wounded. The burglar who died was 16 at the time — a tender age, you might think; but this apple-cheeked lad had managed to accumulate 29 criminal convictions for acts of theft and violence in his short life. http://article.natio...GY2MjQ1MTdkOWQ=and this storyA millionaire businessman is facing jail for attacking a career criminal who had held his family hostage at knifepoint. Munir Hussain, 52, was told he would be killed when three raiders invaded his home. He and his wife, their teenage daughter and two sons were ordered to lie on the floor of the living room with their hands behind their backs. http://www.dailymail...aider-home.html Cant dispute that, but its the same here in Cebu, if a foreigner was to discharge a weapon in defence, even if the weapon was licensed to his spouse on there own property, the foriegner would face charges no matter of the intent of the attacker, hard to understand both in the UK and Here, who's the law protecting?John Edited October 29, 2009 by johnb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 who's the law protecting?The purpose of gun laws is to protect government from its citizens."The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Boy, 10, shoots sis dead with 'toy gun' So who is to blame for this tragic death? Children must be taught safety regarding the many dangerous objects in the home. The stove is hot, don't touch it. The knife is sharp. Don't run with scissors. Look both ways before crossing the street. Don't touch your father's gun. All children (and adults) need to be taught the basics of gun safety, especially If there is a firearm in the home. Never touch the gun without permission. A firearm is not a toy but a tool for special circumstances. Always keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction. Never put your finger inside the trigger guard unless you are ready to fire. When a firearm is not being used it should be made safe (i.e. locked up, unloaded, etc.). Children can be taught respect and safe use of firearms from a young age. Take your young children to a gun range or other safe place for target practice. Satisfy their curiousity and let them become familar with firearms and learn to have respect for a tool that can take life. Parents have the responsibility to teach their children how to live safely in this dangerous world. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollygoodfellow Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Boy, 10, shoots sis dead with 'toy gun' So who is to blame for this tragic death? Could it be the gun manufacturer, no it was home made and gotten in spite of gun laws, could it be the country for allowing people to own guns, no the gun was unlicensed and in the home illegally, could it be the child, no way they are innocents that need to be protected by their parents or guardians, so who is really to blame, to me it is whoever left that illegal gun lying around in a home that had no parent supervision, because both parents had to work, probably to survive, but shouldn't the children have been supervised by someone. At the end of the story it said no one would be charged and while I agree that the loss of a child may be punishment enough, to me the parents are responsible, but what the heck, I guess we can always take the easy route and blame the gun. ILOILO CITY , Philippines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lee Posted October 30, 2009 Author Posted October 30, 2009 Boy, 10, shoots sis dead with 'toy gun' So who is to blame for this tragic death? Could it be the gun manufacturer, no it was home made and gotten in spite of gun laws, could it be the country for allowing people to own guns, no the gun was unlicensed and in the home illegally, could it be the child, no way they are innocents that need to be protected by their parents or guardians, so who is really to blame, to me it is whoever left that illegal gun lying around in a home that had no parent supervision, because both parents had to work, probably to survive, but shouldn't the children have been supervised by someone. At the end of the story it said no one would be charged and while I agree that the loss of a child may be punishment enough, to me the parents are responsible, but what the heck, I guess we can always take the easy route and blame the gun. ILOILO CITY , Philippines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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