Building a Home in Davao

[Tommy T.]

3 minutes ago, hk blues said:

It's a balancing act.  

Quite so. The embedded tubing runs will mostly be fairly short. The tubing should be okay because the places where leaks might occur will be at the ends where connections are sweated together. I am basing those thoughts from my experiences with refrigeration on the yacht.

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, Tommy T. said:

Quite so. The embedded tubing runs will mostly be fairly short. The tubing should be okay because the places where leaks might occur will be at the ends where connections are sweated together. I am basing those thoughts from my experiences with refrigeration on the yacht.

Yep...leaks are highly unlikely but we were unlucky.  How are they going to manage condensation on the pipes potentially bleeding into the walls?  We have not had any condensation issues but our neighbour has terrible problems with it - very unsightly and damaging if inside walls I'd imagine.  I believe such pipe runs are usually boxed in rather than embedded in walls for obvious reasons. 

[Tommy T.]

1 minute ago, hk blues said:

Yep...leaks are highly unlikely but we were unlucky.  How are they going to manage condensation on the pipes potentially bleeding into the walls?  We have not had any condensation issues but our neighbour has terrible problems with it - very unsightly and damaging if inside walls I'd imagine.  I believe such pipe runs are usually boxed in rather than embedded in walls for obvious reasons. 

According to the installers, the tubing is all insulated. Again, referring back to my yachting days, wherever the tubing was insulated (which was everywhere), there was never an issue with condensation. I will inspect when the installation takes place and ensure that all tubing will be properly insulated as promised.

[hk blues]

9 minutes ago, Tommy T. said:

According to the installers, the tubing is all insulated. Again, referring back to my yachting days, wherever the tubing was insulated (which was everywhere), there was never an issue with condensation. I will inspect when the installation takes place and ensure that all tubing will be properly insulated as promised.

If you were going to be living on a yacht all would be well then...

 

[Tommy T.]

22 minutes ago, hk blues said:

If you were going to be living on a yacht all would be well then...

 

Not any more - I am way over that. I still like to go sailing but don't want all the hassles and expenses of boat ownership any more. I am glad the yacht is in good hands now with a really cool and caring sailor.

But, fortunately, some of the things I learned during my sailing years apply quite nicely to living on dirt. I am still always learning - so much to learn.... And L is a good and patient teacher for a lot of it. I feel like I am a very lucky guy...

Edited February 11, 2020 by Tommy T.

[Viking]

How long will the insulation around the pipes last, before it needs to be replaced?

If it was my house I would choose a different solution, probably like HK said, box them in, in some way so that they can be accessed in the future if needed.

[Tommy T.]

4 hours ago, Viking said:

How long will the insulation around the pipes last, before it needs to be replaced?

If it was my house I would choose a different solution, probably like HK said, box them in, in some way so that they can be accessed in the future if needed.

That's a good question, which I will ask. Thanks for the idea.

The tubing runs will be mostly rather short, so issues can be readily addressed.

The insulation on the yacht refrigeration system was a rather thick, very sticky, black insulating tape. It lasted over 20 years at last count before I sold it. No leaks, no problems with the tubing, only the evaporator parts, compressors and related parts. And this was in a harsh environment with salt air and water, sometimes violent motions and shocks and extended usage in a very warm compartment.

So, as you suggest, there may be some risk involved? I will let you know how it goes and what the insulation is.

[Tommy T.]

I just returned from a solo trip to the home since L is at work...

The foreman was not around, but there was work being done and the air/con installers were there. It turns out that EMCOR does not have its own installers, but rather uses a third party sub-contractor...interesting. Three or four guys from this team was busily chipping away at the plastering and hollow blocks in several places. I was quite impressed with how hard it was for them to chip it out - very hard stuff!

The lead is a nice guy, spoke passable English and answered all my questions and concerns. According to him, he used to be an EMCOR employee but branched out on his own to subcontract - good for him! My number one question was from @Viking regarding the piping insulation. He confirmed that it is a special type of tape and would positively prevent any condensation forming inside the hollow block walls or elsewhere. 

When I asked him how long the tubing should last and stay dry - 10 years, 20? He smiled and said it would last at least that long. But then, what's he supposed to say - it'll last until the day after the warranty runs out? But watching the guys work, they seemed professional, had proper tools (not put-together hammers from hunks of metal and leftover pipes...). They were even using at least one very new looking ladder. The results I saw so far were neat and clean. So I guess time will tell.He knew exactly where the units were going to be located and even showed me where one of the windows in the guest bedroom needed to have the top lowered by 5 cms to allow room for the unit and, later, the curtain rod. This guy was thinking.

Meanwhile, the masons are literally working overtime at night on plastering the house walls inside and out and recently started doing the same on the fence.

Air/con guy chipping out the plastering for the copper tubing.

Another one using a drill with a masonry bit to make a hole through the wall for tubing and cable.

Difficult to see, but two masons plastering the upstairs south wall.

Front of the property fence now plastered inside. Note the light in the middle so they could work after dark when it's cooler.

More progress on the wall plastering.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Tommy T.

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, Tommy T. said:

I just returned from a solo trip to the home since L is at work...

The foreman was not around, but there was work being done and the air/con installers were there. It turns out that EMCOR does not have its own installers, but rather uses a third party sub-contractor...interesting. Three or four guys from this team was busily chipping away at the plastering and hollow blocks in several places. I was quite impressed with how hard it was for them to chip it out - very hard stuff!

The lead is a nice guy, spoke passable English and answered all my questions and concerns. According to him, he used to be an EMCOR employee but branched out on his own to subcontract - good for him! My number one question was from @Viking regarding the piping insulation. He confirmed that it is a special type of tape and would positively prevent any condensation forming inside the hollow block walls or elsewhere. 

When I asked him how long the tubing should last and stay dry - 10 years, 20? He smiled and said it would last at least that long. But then, what's he supposed to say - it'll last until the day after the warranty runs out? But watching the guys work, they seemed professional, had proper tools (not put-together hammers from hunks of metal and leftover pipes...). They were even using at least one very new looking ladder. The results I saw so far were neat and clean. So I guess time will tell.He knew exactly where the units were going to be located and even showed me where one of the windows in the guest bedroom needed to have the top lowered by 5 cms to allow room for the unit and, later, the curtain rod. This guy was thinking.

 

By coincidence we had EMCOR yesterday to do the annual cleaning - they were not wearing EMCOR T-shirts unlike the last 3 times but 1 of the 2 was the same as previous and they were driving an EMCOR e-truck and it was the same EMCOR number we used to arrange the visit so I'm guessing it's still in-house here in Iloilo - for now anyway. 

As for the insulation, I agree that the answer we get will always be the one we want!   There are actually 2 insulations used - a thick white one around the copper tubing and a thin plastic wrap to go around the copper tubing and blue drain pipe.  It looks sturdy enough but who knows how well it stands up to insects etc?  

I'm happy to hear they seemed professional - that has been my experience so far. 

[Tommy T.]

23 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I'm happy to hear they seemed professional - that has been my experience so far. 

Well, their estimators and installers seem very professional. The front office and service office are confusing and confused.

L called the service desk woman to ask why they are charging something for the installation. She was told it was for the chipping of hollowblock. I can understand that, but it was not in the original quote which flatly said "free," except for excess tubing. I knew we would have to pay extra for the compressor racks.

The woman then pressed L that they were going to be installing the actual units right away? This is the second or third time she has pushed this and L was getting annoyed.

But today I think I may have figured it out. The site is about 19 kms from the EMCOR office downtown. And they are using third party. They might be getting charged per trip out and it's a long ride especially when traffic is (normally) thick. So maybe they are getting dinged on the installation charges and are pressured to finish the job in one go? Well... that's my theory.

Anyway, L held her ground and told the woman to stop asking - we will inform them when it's time and not the other way around.