Electrical problems.

[Gary D]

4 hours ago, jimeve said:

In the UK it's law to have the shower with a 30amp  breaker ,Same with the electric ovens. But what do we know lol. Basic maths count the amps that the appliance will use add them up thats the total of amps for that breaker. Safer to keep the shower on a seperate breaker.

It's not just the amps in a circuit you also need to consider the wire gauge. In the UK we traditionally use ring mains so the wire is not so heavy as you would need if it was Philippines spur style. If you used a 20A breaker on a UK lighting ring the wire would burn out before the breaker tripped. With what they use for wire in the Philippines that would mostly be the case as well.

[jimeve]

6 minutes ago, Gary D said:

It's not just the amps in a circuit you also need to consider the wire gauge. In the UK we traditionally use ring mains so the wire is not so heavy as you would need if it was Philippines spur style. If you used a 20A breaker on a UK lighting ring the wire would burn out before the breaker tripped. With what they use for wire in the Philippines that would mostly be the case as well.

of course Gary needless to say you do need a bigger gauge wire for 30 amp in the UK. I rewired two house in the UK no problem, over here I'm going to keep well away from electrics. i do know that the wiring for the lights was thinner and on a 15 amp over here.

[Gary D]

7 minutes ago, jimeve said:

of course Gary needless to say you do need a bigger gauge wire for 30 amp in the UK. I rewired two house in the UK no problem, over here I'm going to keep well away from electrics. i do know that the wiring for the lights was thinner and on a 15 amp over here.

Yes in the UK we use 2.5mm but that is only good for about 20A so a ring gives you 2x2.5mm with a 30A breaker. Lighting we 1.0mm, used to be 0.75mm.

[Tommy T.]

13 hours ago, Gary D said:

Yes in the UK we use 2.5mm but that is only good for about 20A so a ring gives you 2x2.5mm with a 30A breaker. Lighting we 1.0mm, used to be 0.75mm.

Gary... could you please describe what you mean by a "ring" in your circuitry? I have never heard that term and am really totally ignorant about how wiring is done in UK...

[Gary D]

21 minutes ago, Tommy T. said:

Gary... could you please describe what you mean by a "ring" in your circuitry? I have never heard that term and am really totally ignorant about how wiring is done in UK...

A ring main, your first connection starts a the breaker and runs to the first outlet then loops to the next outlet and loops to the next and so on. The last outlet then loops back to the breaker.  It gives twice the current capacity as an outlet is fed from both directions around the ring. Also should the ring get broken all outlet are still feed although you would need to watch your load.

[Tommy T.]

10 minutes ago, Gary D said:

A ring main, your first connection starts a the breaker and runs to the first outlet then loops to the next outlet and loops to the next and so on. The last outlet then loops back to the breaker.  It gives twice the current capacity as an outlet is fed from both directions around the ring. Also should the ring get broken all outlet are still feed although you would need to watch your load.

Thanks for the explanation, Gary. I think that in USA, we just did straight connection without the return - at least that is what I remember and that is how I did it on the yacht with the A/C and, of course, the D/C. That design would require a bit of extra wiring then to make the home run, right?

It makes sense... There is redundancy in that sort of system...

And it is really important to use adequate size and proper wiring - copper only - to keep resistance to a minimum. I had a book I used as a guide for wire gauge vs. voltage and current when I bought the yacht. I gave it away a few years ago and now wish I had kept it. Even though over 20 years old, the terms and technology (except for modern power draws) have not really changed. I may but another because I don't always like to rely on the internet - I like to have a book with tactile pages in my hands...

From the little I know about circuitry here in the Philippines, I think it is done the USA way with just one-way circuits? Can you or anyone confirm that?

Edited October 20, 2019 by Tommy T.

[Gary D]

2 hours ago, Tommy T. said:

Thanks for the explanation, Gary. I think that in USA, we just did straight connection without the return - at least that is what I remember and that is how I did it on the yacht with the A/C and, of course, the D/C. That design would require a bit of extra wiring then to make the home run, right?

It makes sense... There is redundancy in that sort of system...

And it is really important to use adequate size and proper wiring - copper only - to keep resistance to a minimum. I had a book I used as a guide for wire gauge vs. voltage and current when I bought the yacht. I gave it away a few years ago and now wish I had kept it. Even though over 20 years old, the terms and technology (except for modern power draws) have not really changed. I may but another because I don't always like to rely on the internet - I like to have a book with tactile pages in my hands...

From the little I know about circuitry here in the Philippines, I think it is done the USA way with just one-way circuits? Can you or anyone confirm that?

Yes its all spurs or star. You need heavier gauge wire that way so is usually more expensive. That's another reason why 240v is popular because you half the current over 110v so the wire is cheaper. And another factor is the voltage droop or sag is less for a given lenght of wire and as a percentage has less effect.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Gary D

[Gary D]

Another problem in the Philippines is that aluminium is commonly used as a conductor, a lot cheaper than copper. We were doing some welding and the heat in the main line expanded the wire so much it nearly touched the ground between the two poles.

[Tommy T.]

25 minutes ago, Gary D said:

Yes its all spurs or star. You need heavier gauge wire that way so is usually more expensive. That's another reason why a0v is popular because you half the current over 110v so the wire is cheaper. And another factor is the voltage droop or sag is less for a given lenght of wire and as a percentage has less effect.

I see... Of course it makes more sense in order to save some in costs... except, doesn't the added length of wire to complete a ring add also to the cost? Just curious about this. I understand clearly the advantage of ability to handle heavier load. It is an interesting concept I never knew before. Thanks for the education!

[Tommy T.]

25 minutes ago, Gary D said:

Another problem in the Philippines is that aluminium is commonly used as a conductor, a lot cheaper than copper. We were doing some welding and the heat in the main line expanded the wire so much it nearly touched the ground between the two poles.

Yeah... I read in an article a while back that aluminum is a commonly used wire here. I just, yesterday, re-checked the house blueprints and it specifies copper wire and the sizes to be used. I will be sure to confirm with the contractor that they will use only copper wire. That's another thing to add to my list. Thanks for that info!