Electrical problems.

[Tommy T.]

31 minutes ago, hk blues said:

This has confused me a little - surely waters flows down more easily than up?

Of course it does... Maybe I didn't explain this correctly? After re-reading my post I can see how you might have gotten confused...sorry.

Try this HK... If the outlet box is on an outside wall and it rains, the water will flow downhill, exactly as you say. So any water that gets into the box somehow will drain out the bottom either into the wall or along the outside.

So, if you bring electric wires or cables that provide power into that same outlet box from the top, then water will not flow down into the wires and definitely will not flow upward into the downward facing wires. (Actually that may not be 100% true because capillary action can bring water into wiring that is not waterproofed and travel regardless of the orientation of it. That is one of the reasons I will soak the outlet with water displacement chemicals or even just grease. Even Vaseline would do the job...)

If you lead the wires in from the bottom of the box, then any water will more easily enter them and tend to travel in or along them...because the water will drain down from the box or wall or wherever it is entering the box...

So what I was referring to was water from outside coming into the outlet and then running down the wire - or not. I reckon that if it does not run down or into the wire, there will be less chance of corrosion such as what Jim experienced? At least that's the plan!

Another way I dealt with this issue on the yacht was to make sure that any wiring that ran along an area that might leak (which basically means almost anywhere on an ocean going yacht) would have a downward loop or dip so any water would just drip off the bottom of that loop or dip and not travel along the wire to anything important - like the circuit panel.

Does that explain it better?

Edited October 22, 2019 by Tommy T.
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[hk blues]

11 hours ago, Tommy T. said:

Of course it does... Maybe I didn't explain this correctly? After re-reading my post I can see how you might have gotten confused...sorry.

Try this HK... If the outlet box is on an outside wall and it rains, the water will flow downhill, exactly as you say. So any water that gets into the box somehow will drain out the bottom either into the wall or along the outside.

So, if you bring electric wires or cables that provide power into that same outlet box from the top, then water will not flow down into the wires and definitely will not flow upward into the downward facing wires. (Actually that may not be 100% true because capillary action can bring water into wiring that is not waterproofed and travel regardless of the orientation of it. That is one of the reasons I will soak the outlet with water displacement chemicals or even just grease. Even Vaseline would do the job...)

If you lead the wires in from the bottom of the box, then any water will more easily enter them and tend to travel in or along them...because the water will drain down from the box or wall or wherever it is entering the box...

So what I was referring to was water from outside coming into the outlet and then running down the wire - or not. I reckon that if it does not run down or into the wire, there will be less chance of corrosion such as what Jim experienced? At least that's the plan!

Another way I dealt with this issue on the yacht was to make sure that any wiring that ran along an area that might leak (which basically means almost anywhere on an ocean going yacht) would have a downward loop or dip so any water would just drip off the bottom of that loop or dip and not travel along the wire to anything important - like the circuit panel.

Does that explain it better?

Not really to be honest but I'm a visual guy so need to see things to get a clear picture. I totally get the looping idea though.

[Tommy T.]

20 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Not really to be honest but I'm a visual guy so need to see things to get a clear picture. I totally get the looping idea though.

Yeah... I understand. I could show you using my hands and some wire in probably less than 10 seconds and it would be easy... 

Think about a water glass with water in it. Then imagine taking some wire in your hand above the glass and poking it down toward that glass and then into the water. The water won't climb up that wire, right? (unless by a bit of capillary action, maybe).

Now imagine a glass or bowl of water with a hole in the bottom. If you somehow could stick the wire up into that glass or bowl from below, then water would naturally run down inside of it and also along the outside.

Most wiring will come up into an outlet from below because that is where the electrics feed into a house here. That is the shortest and most direct routing. So what I am planning is to bring the wire up from below but run it so it will extend above the outlets and then loop back down again to enter the box and connect to the outlets. That way, water will not naturally run into the wire except maybe at the end a bit...

The photo shows the idea of how the wires will be routed into the external outlets...

So imagine that the water glass is an electrical outlet box. If, for some reason it filled with water, this is how it would look...sort of. Most likely, it would just be some running water from the rain. But you can see how the wire is looped to keep from wicking the water...?

Edited October 23, 2019 by Tommy T.
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[hk blues]

Just for fun I checked my 2 outside outlets and both have the cables feeding from above, as you suggest. I imagine the feed is from the ground and the electrician has looped them from above ' great minds!

[Gary D]

1 hour ago, hk blues said:

Just for fun I checked my 2 outside outlets and both have the cables feeding from above, as you suggest. I imagine the feed is from the ground and the electrician has looped them from above ' great minds!

The wiring is usually run in the ceiling space so would naturally run down from above.

[hk blues]

3 hours ago, Gary D said:

The wiring is usually run in the ceiling space so would naturally run down from above.

In my place the wiring for the lights seems to be from above but the wiring for the outlets is from the floor - I saw them running the orange tubing along the ground and up to the outlets.  I suppose this is because the electricals were done at the back end so all block walls needed chipped so they choose the shortest route.  That said, where there is Hardiflex I'm not sure how they fed the cables for those outlets.  

[Gary D]

Our new build the architect is of the opinion that we just chase the walls once they are up.

[hk blues]

3 hours ago, Gary D said:

Our new build the architect is of the opinion that we just chase the walls once they are up.

If it were me I'd also do it that way - at least you might have a chance of finding the cables should troubleshooting be needed - with them set in the concrete pad and going in who knows what direction, and with tiles being laid over, you have zero chance of getting to the cables. They just take the easiest short-term way I guess.

[jimeve]

25 minutes ago, hk blues said:

If it were me I'd also do it that way - at least you might have a chance of finding the cables should troubleshooting be needed - with them set in the concrete pad and going in who knows what direction, and with tiles being laid over, you have zero chance of getting to the cables. They just take the easiest short-term way I guess.

It's a good idea to take lots of photos of the electric wiring being chased in the walls for future problems, also do the same with the plumbing pipes.

[Tommy T.]

3 hours ago, jimeve said:

It's a good idea to take lots of photos of the electric wiring being chased in the walls for future problems, also do the same with the plumbing pipes.

Agreed.... I took photos of our house being constructed in USA many years ago. Not only were they helpful to see and find things, but it also helped sell the house because buyers could see how it was really built. I will do a lot of that here so we can find things in the future after it is all buried in cement...

Having photos of parts or components is also priceless when it comes to buying replacement or spare parts. Most of the time, once a salesperson sees a photo he or she can take me right to the product I want. If I try to describe it in words, I can be there all day and still not get what I am seeking.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Tommy T.
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