Forum Support Tommy T. Posted April 5, 2020 Forum Support Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said: As I understand it, the old and sickly are the most vulnerable because the young and middle age can beat this in intensive care. Open the floodgates and you flood the intensive care so the deaths rise tenfold and include lots of 30 and 40 somethings who cannot get care and ventilators. At least that is how I see it in an oversimplied nutshell. Thus I stay at home and encourage the rest of my family to do the same. You make a good point, Dave. I don't really mind the self isolation. If this can help stop the virus, then I am all for it no matter how long it might take. I just hope the others - the younger, especially - will take it as seriously... And I do see that it ultimately would be better for the younger to carry on. It is just difficult for me to be one of those to sacrifice. But... now that you mention it, I guess I would do that if that's what it came to. My Dad, when he was old and ailing had a big red "Do not Resuscitate," sign on his refrigerator last time I saw him. I was appalled yet very proud of his decision and greatly admired him and will always... Edited April 5, 2020 by Tommy T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, peterfe said: We are always managing risk, but suddenly in this panic no risk, to anyone, is acceptable. What is the point of Civilization if we cannot act civilized? Archaeologists when asked when did cilization start have answered "when the first early human didn't die of a broken leg". The point being that a community cared for the early human long enough and well enough that they were able to lie down and not move for long enough to heal. Yes we're not perfect but we've been getting better and that doesn't have to stop. Are we really ready to revert to a time before that where human life is valued by how much we can contribute to society? To old or too weak or too sick so throw them on the trash heap? I would not want to live in such a society. Edited April 5, 2020 by GeoffH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heeb Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 43 minutes ago, GeoffH said: What is the point of Civilization if we cannot act civilized? Archaeologists when asked when did cilization start have answered "when the first early human didn't die of a broken leg". The point being that a community cared for the early human long enough and well enough that they were able to lie down and not move for long enough to heal. Yes we're not perfect but we've been getting better and that doesn't have to stop. Are we really ready to revert to a time before that where human life is valued by how much we can contribute to society? To old or too weak or too sick so throw them on the trash heap? I would not want to live in such a society. But I'll bet when a saber toothed tiger jumped into their cave for a snack they all hauled asss and left him there, just like the wildebeests being chased by a cheetah on the Serengeti, they don't stop to help out the weakest link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Heeb said: But I'll bet when a saber toothed tiger jumped into their cave for a snack they all hauled asss and left him there, just like the wildebeests being chased by a cheetah on the Serengeti, they don't stop to help out the weakest link. Humans in groups hunted the largest and most powerful animals of the African savannah. I'll say that again... in groups. They did it until this century and every man in the hunting group relied on every other man to do their job, weakest link or strongest link. You see there are two basic modes that human society operates in, cooperation or competition. Cooperation works better but it requires most people to cooperate and some people are simply unwilling or incapable of doing that. It doesn't make one weaker to cooperate, humankinds greatest achievements come from cooperating and part of that is being willing to support people when they need it so that they'll support you later. That's called enlightened self interest. And yes there are times when cooperation works better (most times) and there are times when it doesn't. But during a pandemic? I know which one I'm betting on. Edited April 5, 2020 by GeoffH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heeb Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Natures balance, animals die, if they don’t they will die of starvation, people are no different, what if nobody ever dies, think about the chaos and suffering, if not for this virus the headline would be people starving in Africa because of the locust plague, I certainly don’t want any of my loved ones to die but die they will someday of something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Tommy T. Posted April 5, 2020 Forum Support Posted April 5, 2020 29 minutes ago, GeoffH said: And yes there are times when cooperation works better (most times) and there are times when it doesn't. But during a pandemic? I know which one I'm betting on. Another true gem, Dr. Geoff!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Tommy T. Posted April 5, 2020 Forum Support Posted April 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Heeb said: Natures balance, animals die, if they don’t they will die of starvation, people are no different, what if nobody ever dies, think about the chaos and suffering, if not for this virus the headline would be people starving in Africa because of the locust plague, I certainly don’t want any of my loved ones to die but die they will someday of something. What you write is also true... But no reason to rush this.... right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, Tommy T. said: Another true gem, Dr. Geoff!!! I am lucky enough to count amongst my friends here several people who actually are Doctors (not medical doctors). They are a bunch of brainy people and it makes me feel like the slow one haha At least it keeps me on my toes! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heeb Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, GeoffH said: Humans in groups hunted the largest and most powerful animals of the African savannah. I'll say that again... in groups. They did it until this century and every man in the hunting group relied on every other man to do their job, weakest link or strongest link. And yes there are times when cooperation works better (most times) and there are times when it doesn't. But during a pandemic? I know which one I'm betting on. As I sit here and read this with my face mask on like I was told to, there’s a bunch of people having a pool party next door when I’ve been told I can’t ride my bike or walk my dog, I assume it’s the chicken joy workers they’ve been bussing in and out to work everyday, they must have Sunday off, and it’s a community pool area. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Tommy T. Posted April 5, 2020 Forum Support Posted April 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, GeoffH said: At least it keeps me on my toes! Geoff... you seem very brainy also. I don't think you need to concede to your doctorate buddies. But, not having personally met you, I have the feeling that you might look a bit weird wearing ballet slippers while keeping on your toes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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