Coronavirus Information Charts.

[nor cal mike]

Mike, I completely get where you’re coming from. You have made some excellent points and most I agree with.I’m just not real sure about a lot of the information out there. I guess that’s where the problem lies. I’m seeing more and more information indicating that numbers have and continue to be inaccurate. That is understandable given the suddenness of outbreak. With this in mind I’m not sure if I’m at greater risk or not. It’s a real fine line and I’m certainly no authority. Just my opinion and happy Jack can tell us what that’s worth 

[nor cal mike]

1 hour ago, Jack Peterson said:

You call me out I will respond    You're now going in the same folder as some others 

Do as you wish Jack, but if you just can’t resist the urge to comment on my ORIGINAL post, please do. You’re fun.

[OnMyWay]

12 hours ago, Mike J said:

And I also respect your decision to follow the rules even when you do not agree with them.  The point of my "leading" questions was not to offend, it was meant to have you and others with similar beliefs reflect on the whole idea of laws, why we have them, and the importance of following those that we do not agree with. 

This is where a big problem lies.  In many cases, the "rules" put out for Covid are not laws.  They are commandments put our by government officials, sometimes down at very low levels.  Most were not voted on in the normal way.

So it is coming to the point where small businesses, sometimes built over a lifetime, are being lost forever. So people are angry and are pushing back on these "laws" that are not laws.  And rightly so.  They have the right to freedom and part of that is the freedom to work, as long as they are NOT directly endangering the safety of others.  If they can follow the basics of Covid protection, many types of businesses can open.

The hair salon case in Texas was a good example.  They open and practice all the Covid avoidance protocols.  Their customers have the option to get their haircut.  If you don't want to risk getting your haircut, stay in your house.  Simple.

Edited May 10, 2020 by OnMyWay

[strap]

10 hours ago, Snowy79 said:

Correct 0.024% which is still greater odds than a lot of the other things that hasn't brought the World to a standstill.

But remember, whatever the correct number is, that number would be MUCH higher if we had not temporarily brought the world to a standstill. Even US President President claims that we saved millions of lives by shutting things down.

And also I think we tend to forget that it's not the case that if you're not one of the relatively few that die, then you're "fine". There have been a lot of people who've almost died, but have survived after being very, very sick. And many are left with lifelong complications. And they're not all old people either.

Edited May 9, 2020 by strap

[Tommy T.]

9 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

They have the right to freedom and part of that is the freedom to work, as long as they are directly endangering the safety of others.????

A bit of a Freudian Slip there OMW? Just kidding you, of course we know what you are saying...

And that is the issue that I have about endangering others:

Two weeks ago, L went out to shop for us. While waiting in a long line to enter the mall, people stood there with masks on and leaving space between each other. L observes people while she waits and notices the guy behind her removing his mask. She waits a short while and, when he does not put it up over mouth and nose again, she asks him politely to do so. He reluctantly does that. Then a few moments later, he removes it again. This time, she steps sideways out of the line 2 meters (still keeping her place in line) and looks at him with stink eye but says nothing. This time he replaces his mask and keeps it on. This is an example of stupid and bad behavour on his part. Then she returns to her place in the queue.

On the same outing, L was standing at the fish counter in SM. People crowded around her as she was picking out fish. You know how people here like to crowd up when buying things. Well, it was just like normal - no distancing. Then, she tells me, she sneezed...twice. She was wearing a mask, but also pulled up her shirt to direct the sneeze inside. She then had to laugh to herself, because all the people crowded around her scattered as if she had fired a shotgun! As someone posted earlier, many Filipinos are not concerned about future or sickness until it happens or maybe is imminent?

Edited May 9, 2020 by Tommy T.

[Snowy79]

7 hours ago, strap said:

But remember, whatever the correct number is, that number would be MUCH higher if we had not temporarily brought the world to a standstill. Even US President President claims that we saved millions of lives by shutting things down.

And also I think we tend to forget that it's not the case that if you're not one of the relatively few that die, then you're "fine". There have been a lot of people who've almost died, but have survived after being very, very sick. And many are left with lifelong complications. And they're not all old people either.

More deaths from Covid maybe but a lot less deaths from from other illnesses that treatment has stopped for due to the fear of catching Covid. The UK has just released a report listing death rates are actually up by 8,196 on a 5yr average due to non treatment of other illnesses, deaths from cancer being the main one.  This is just the start.  Imagine your cancer diagnosis not been found due to the testing facilities being put on hold, every day ar week delay can be the difference between life and death and that over 70% of all cancer mortalities happen in the age group above 65.

When you take into consideration the quarantine has meant a massive reduction in roads traffic accidents and work related deaths I'm sure you can see that by concentrating on Covid the Government has taken it's eye off of the ball.

[Mike J]

13 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

More deaths from Covid maybe but a lot less deaths from from other illnesses that treatment has stopped for due to the fear of catching Covid. The UK has just released a report listing death rates are actually up by 8,196 on a 5yr average due to non treatment of other illnesses, deaths from cancer being the main one. 

You are saying that deaths are up from other causes because of the corona, and this is WITH a lockdown.  The hospital overcrowding and turn aways would have been far worse WITHOUT a lockdown because of a dramatic increase in corona cases.   The logic of that argument against quarantine sort of breaks down in my opinion. 

[GeoffH]

1 hour ago, Snowy79 said:

Imagine your cancer diagnosis not been found due to the testing facilities being put on hold

I'd rather imagine this... that my country put in place a strict lockdown that allowed dedicated Covid-19 hospitals to handle the all Covid-19 cases, that other hospitals (both public and private) worked over time to handle all waiting surgeries on a 'urgency' basis back before the virus left China and that the non Covid-19 hospitals therefore had sufficient capacity to diagnose Cancer patients, Heart patients and other serious cases.

Oh wait... I don't have to imagine it... it happened here (and in most other countries who acted quickly).

Governments who didn't come down hard on Covid-19 early are the ones who 'took their eye off the ball as you put it'.  

Edited May 10, 2020 by GeoffH

[Mike J]

11 hours ago, nor cal mike said:

It’s a real fine line and I’m certainly no authority.

It is such a difficult way to find a way forward.  As the old saying goes,  we are "between the rock and hard place".  There are really are no "good" choices, only those that do the least harm.  Even after this is all over the debate will go on for years, perhaps decades.  One side will say "See, it was overblown and the decisions made in panic wrecked the world's economy".  The other side will say "As bad as it was, the outcome would have been so much worse had we not taken extreme action."

Future comparisons of those countries which did quick and strong lockdowns versus those who delayed and/or had less restrictions may prove fruitful.  What was the toll both in terms of deaths and damage to the economies?   Which methods provided the best balance?  But I expect that even the results of those studies will prove to be just as controversial.   Be a shame if we go through all this and learn nothing to help us through the next one. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Mike J

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Tommy T. said:

A bit of a Freudian Slip there OMW?

Ooops!  Fixed!

1 hour ago, Tommy T. said:

And that is the issue that I have about endangering others:

Didn't quote it all but read the issues you described.  It is really not much different than all the other rule breaking that goes on here.  There is a lack of common courtesy and that is hard to get rid of.  Crazy drivers, etc., endanger and kill people all the time.  That is life.