Westerners complaining about Filipino issues that also affect them.

[Snowy79]

I've been noticing a few heated discussions lately on local Facebooks, pretty much to the stage where things are getting out of hand between Westerners ( Foreigners) and locals.

It's more of a heads us for those new here but basically there's a massive culture difference here with how problems are solved and discussed.  If you get it wrong you can make a lot of enemies.

I've been trying to explain to my Filipino friends that Westerners tend to be more aggresive when it comes to problems. They call a spade a spade.  If things are obviously wrong they will complain until something is done.  If it means shaming the person then so be it but eventually things change.  If someone provides a bad service they lose customers or someone gets fired.

To a local if you highlight a problem they tend to take it personally even if it has nothing to do with them, they almost defend the problem if it is Filipino related.  The Filipino pride kicks in and the usual "If you don't like it go home" followed by his friends jumping on board bad mouthing the foreigner for having the audacity of trying to highlight problems.

The best course of events is, if you can't change it you are wasting your time and a few friendships arguing over it. You could have 1,000 examples of the improvements a change will make but it still won't happen.

[Tommy T.]

3 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

To a local if you highlight a problem they tend to take it personally even if it has nothing to do with them, they almost defend the problem if it is Filipino related.  The Filipino pride kicks in and the usual "If you don't like it go home" followed by his friends jumping on board bad mouthing the foreigner for having the audacity of trying to highlight problems.

 

I hear you, Snowy. Fortunately, I do not do FaceBook and really have no confrontations with anyone local - just here on the forum, sometimes.

However, L and I have long conversations about exactly this idea you bring up. She is very enlightened and also frustrated when she tries to move forward with ideas and concepts that might improve things in her society and at her high school. She is one of the exceptions.

So many of her co-teachers are scared of their own shadows because they don't want to lose their jobs. They are also very concerned about losing face always... She tends to be mostly rather logical and not so emotional regarding concepts - that's one of the reasons I love her and stick with her.

I think there is a trend building in the society here, that will gradually accept more western influence regarding problem solving, but it will be very slow to develop and proceed, I think. There is so much history and so much inertia. Think about the bucket of American crabs vs. the bucket of Pacific Island crabs?

[scott h]

11 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

If things are obviously wrong they will complain until something is done.

The other day at pure gold, I was in the 1 basket line with 1 basket, the lady in front of me had two FULL baskets. She kept going over and talking to a young lady (obviously her daughter) who was in the cart line with two baskets INSIDE the cart. I saw what was coming. Sure enough when our line moved faster the daughter brought her baskets over to out line. Now we had two members from the same family (in violation of the 1 per family rule) in line with four baskets.

I looked around at the others in line, some looked disgusted, others just looked away. I waved down a stock boy and had him go get the manager. The manager kame and I described what happened.

Naturally profuse apologies, but no real action taken. When the lady got to the register the register lady pointed to the "1 basket per customer sign" but still served her.   

The young man behind me, with 1 basket looked at me and said in very good English "Sometimes I really hate Filipinos!" 

Even though the problem wasn't solved, I felt better that at least I brought it to the attention of management. 

[Snowy79]

I'll add that it may be location sensitive or maybe some areas don't have major problems. Im my last area I was told a few times if I don't like things to go home.  This area was pretty much kept afloat by foreign money and they were bailing out in a large enough number that it was affecting the economy yet they wouldn't back down. I tried to explain I don't have to go home, I can take my money to a more progressive area of the Philippines and maybe my money will feed 5 families there. (which I did).

This virus has desimated the area now as it's economy is almost 80% tourism and the majority of resorts, bars and restaurants operated by foreign money.  Recently more of the business owners have been speaking up about easily solvable issues only to be abused.  It's almost as if the locals there would buy the person who has been kicking them between the legs new boots.  They are actually making businesses fail by not complaining yet they don't see the repercussions. It has got to the stage now where a few foreigners said they will no longer put one peso into the local economy, many of these people were the ones that had set up relief missions to help the poor as the LGU are so bad, they've now said regrettably they will stop until things change.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Snowy79

[Old55]

During my many visits sometimes I'll be asked my opinion or pointed questions about Filipino Politics or Filipino issues. I always say as a guest visiting Philippines it's not my place to comment. My close Filipino friends know how I feel others are simply looking to start Filipino - Foreigner drama.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Old55

[GeoffH]

1 hour ago, Old55 said:

I always say as a guest visiting Philippines it's not my place to comment. My close Filipino friends know how I feel others are simply looking to start Filipino - Foreigner drama.

 

One incident comes to mind, SWMBO and I went to the pet shop in the mall to get something for the dog (I forget what but it isn't important).

I was talking to an older local gentleman, well dressed about dogs, he asked me what work I did and I explained that I had retired from the family business which was a regional bus company and he asked me about Australia and what the rules about land was there.  Nothing about the Philippines at all, he had a relative who was going there for study.

I explained that non residents could not only rent property but could also buy property and that I wished Australia had a similar rule to the Philippines about foreign ownership of property because Chinese buyers were buying a lot of property in Australia, driving up prices and making it harder for the locals.

Another guy (who I hadn't been talking to at all) stopped on his way out of the store and started yelling at me about how I had no right to critisize Philippines land ownership policy, I explained (while he was shouting) that I was talking about Australia but he wasn't stopping and he was getting more agressive and it was attracting the attention of other shoppers now.

That was when the gentleman I'd been talking to stood up from his seat (there were a couple in the shop) and very firmly without yelling put this guy in his place, turns out he was a large business owner and he wasn't happy.   Once a Filipino started defending me the small crowd lost interest and that was when SWMBO arrived also (and look concerned).

I honestly think it would have gotten rather more than just verbally unpleasant without the intervention of the other gentleman in a short time which could have ended any way.

These days I avoid talking as much as possible, even about subjects which aren't about the Philippines as much as possible.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by GeoffH

[Old55]

I'm sorry to hear that Geoff. Good that it ended reasonably well.

I'm curious if others have been intentionally setup or trolled by a Filipino looking to start an argument?

[Jack Peterson]

17 minutes ago, Old55 said:

intentionally setup or trolled by a Filipino looking to start an argument?

 It happens but don't let's Forget the Foreigner that can lead a conversation into this sort of Situation. I have met some and once had a closeish Friend? that was a dab Hand at it.  Filipinos don't usually Troll they tend to say it as it is then when it starts, Blame us which is why I stay away from any total Filipino gatherings

[hk blues]

I guess the problem is we Westerners want things to change for the better, but what we really mean is change to what we like about our own countries.  Interestingly, people here seem genuinely happier on average than people in our own countries.  So, can we really blame people here for not wanting to buy into the Western way of life?  It's not like they, or we, can cherry pick which parts off the culture we want to enjoy.  

[Jack Peterson]

2 minutes ago, hk blues said:

It's not like they, or we, can cherry pick which parts off the culture we want to enjoy.  

  But many do or at least that is the impression sometimes I get