Have we learnt anything these last few months?

[Mike J]

9 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

In any case, Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.

I agree completely and those who drive through the rear view mirror almost always crash.  In real life you make the best decision before going forward with  the information you have.  That is what the US did, that is what the Philippines did, that is what most countries in the world did and continue to do now.   This debate about lock down versus open will never go away.  Views are too firmly entrenched on both sides.   Each side seems to "cherry pick" data to support their view.  One side claims you need to look at the data.  The other side say BS, you can't trust the data.  One side will say lock downs saved millions of lives.  The other will say it was the flu and we destroyed the economy.  If I might misquote Donald Rumsfeld; " 'You go into a pandemic with the information you have, not the information you might want or wish to have at a later time.'

Folks, this debate isn't going away EVER.   In the end each side will continue to call the other side stupid or worse.   The views expressed here, just like this one, are all just mini-rants.  There - got that off my chest. 

[Jack D]

If nothing else, I've learned how to stockpile things just like what the 'doomsday preppers' do.

Canned foods, toilet paper, paper towels, 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, disinfectants, batteries, and a Glock (with ammo) are just a few of the things that are necessities in all 'perceived' apocalyptic situations. 

[earthdome]

36 minutes ago, Jack D said:

If nothing else, I've learned how to stockpile things just like what the 'doomsday preppers' do.

Canned foods, toilet paper, paper towels, 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, disinfectants, batteries, and a Glock (with ammo) are just a few of the things that are necessities in all 'perceived' apocalyptic situations. 

Don't forget the baseball bat for when the Glock runs out of ammo, preferably a metal bat.

[Jack D]

1 minute ago, earthdome said:

Don't forget the baseball bat for when the Glock runs out of ammo, preferably a metal bat.

Plus, I’ll have a double barreled shotgun with plenty of ammo. 

[Tommy T.]

52 minutes ago, Jack D said:

Plus, I’ll have a double barreled shotgun with plenty of ammo. 

Pump action I think is possibly better? You can then fire several shots (many more than just two) in quick succession and reloading is quick too! I had one by the bed when living in the woods in USA. 12 ga magnum hollow point slugs alternated with magnum buckshot. Good close-in personal protection. Great for cutting down trees too...

Edited May 22, 2020 by Tommy T.

[Tommy T.]

13 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

NY state has almost 30% of the U.S. deaths.  I could argue that if they had handled everything better, U.S. deaths would be far lower.  Especially when you read about the blunders they made with the most vulnerable, seniors.  Not sure, but I doubt that the NY Times carries much news about that.

I appreciate your thorough reply to my comments, OMW, thanks!

You did point out, correctly, that I did misunderstand or not completely understand some of your comments or direction and who made what comments in a few places in your original post. Thanks for the clarifications.

Yeah... there's plenty of blame to go around. I try to keep an open mind to all ideas and then poke holes in things I don't understand or find I can't agree with sometimes. And I expect that many of us will not agree with each other's viewpoint. That's why we participate in this forum? (at least one of the reasons I do).

And I just quoted the small part about New York state bobbling the ball at the beginning of when the s*** started to hit the fan. Indeed, the slow and spluttering initial response was anemic and underwhelming. So, yes, I read about that, but also on MSN as part of a longer article. I don't read the Times except for articles posted in MSN - which, you can see, is my normal news site - not the best, but rather comprehensive. I also visit BBC and CNN and watch them on the tube. And, yes, I do recognize the bias in the news "reporting" and spinning that I see. It is everywhere and a bit irritating to me to not just get balanced reporting of facts without prejudice or slant.

Like Mike J and you mention and I think everyone would agree? that the Monday morning quarterbacking always has 20/20 vision. The repercussions of this event will go on for the rest of - at least some of our - lifetimes and beyond. I am not eager to get older in a hurry, but it would be very interesting to read the takes that will be in the history documents online in the future (I didn't mention books because there may not be any physical books before too long?).

Edited May 22, 2020 by Tommy T.

[OnMyWay]

3 hours ago, Mike J said:

I agree completely and those who drive through the rear view mirror almost always crash.  In real life you make the best decision before going forward with  the information you have.  That is what the US did, that is what the Philippines did, that is what most countries in the world did and continue to do now.   This debate about lock down versus open will never go away.  Views are too firmly entrenched on both sides.   Each side seems to "cherry pick" data to support their view.  One side claims you need to look at the data.  The other side say BS, you can't trust the data.  One side will say lock downs saved millions of lives.  The other will say it was the flu and we destroyed the economy.  If I might misquote Donald Rumsfeld; " 'You go into a pandemic with the information you have, not the information you might want or wish to have at a later time.'

Folks, this debate isn't going away EVER.   In the end each side will continue to call the other side stupid or worse.   The views expressed here, just like this one, are all just mini-rants.  There - got that off my chest. 

I agree with most of what you said here, but with one addition.

We should be able to learn from our mistakes.  We should be able to do it better next time.

[Tommy T.]

10 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

We should be able to learn from our mistakes.  We should be able to do it better next time.

Well... apparently we haven't learned from the Spanish Flu a hundred years ago?

China did not seem to learn from the SARS outbreak a few years ago?

The U. S. government did not seem to learn from Ebola or MERSA? They dismantled a number of disease and health offices that might have been of help?

Humans don't seem to have learned that warring with each other is expensive and often simply wasteful?

I wish I could agree with you on that one, OMW, but I have strong doubts after considering history.

[Mike J]

5 minutes ago, Tommy T. said:

Well... apparently we haven't learned from the Spanish Flu a hundred years ago?

China did not seem to learn from the SARS outbreak a few years ago?

The U. S. government did not seem to learn from Ebola or MERSA? They dismantled a number of disease and health offices that might have been of help?

Humans don't seem to have learned that warring with each other is expensive and often simply wasteful?

I wish I could agree with you on that one, OMW, but I have strong doubts after considering history.

On the other hand we are getting better at fixing blame instead of fixing problems. 

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Tommy T. said:

Well... apparently we haven't learned from the Spanish Flu a hundred years ago?

China did not seem to learn from the SARS outbreak a few years ago?

The U. S. government did not seem to learn from Ebola or MERSA? They dismantled a number of disease and health offices that might have been of help?

Humans don't seem to have learned that warring with each other is expensive and often simply wasteful?

I wish I could agree with you on that one, OMW, but I have strong doubts after considering history.

Apples and oranges.

I think we can learn lessons near term on how to handle a virus like this.  For instance, if there is a second wave this next winter, we can handle it differently.

Near to mid term, I think business and government and citizens can be better prepared.  Wearing of masks, social distancing, etc., is something people can jump into quite quickly when the need arises.  Business can be prepared by modifying workspaces, allowing more work from home, etc.  Government can make sure we maintain stockpiles of masks, etc., and making sure we are self dependent on most of these items.

If nothing happens again soon, perhaps the next generation will forget it all and make the same mistakes.

Other societies adapted.  We have many Koreans in our area and they often wore masks before Covid was around.  I think this was because of lessons learned with SARS, Swine flu, etc.  Perhaps our new normal is to pop on a mask every time something is going around.  It would help a lot with the seasonal flu.