Have we learnt anything these last few months?

[AusExpat]

These past months I learnt what it was like for my ex-gf living under the Soviets.

I used to make fun of it a bit then one day she cracked and let me have it that I had no idea what it was like. She was correct, now I've had a little taste, and I don't know how people could live with bread lines, travel restrictions, nosy (informant) neighbours, and gaol threats over what would be considered normal living in other times.

[RBM]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:04 AM, Jack D said:

 

, toilet paper, paper towels

Read an article recently titled why do we use toilet paper.

one sentence remember, if we fall into a muddy area, normal one protrudes arms to cushion oneself. Would we choose to wash our hand in running water or grab some paper to clean up.......

[Jack D]

6 minutes ago, RBM said:

Read an article recently titled why do we use toilet .

I prefer Japanese toilets. I always look forward to using one whenever I change planes in Tokyo.

 

[manofthecoldland]

11 hours ago, earthdome said:

It is very difficult to 100% protect yourself. Masks can help to reduce your chance of contracting the virus. How much it reduces your risk depends upon the quality of the mask and your skill and knowledge of how to properly use it.

Excellent point to note and emphasis that it "can help to reduce your chances of contracting the virus" and the sentence that follows. 

The general public service announcements emphasis that you are primarily protecting others by capturing and containing (to some degree) the virus if you unknowingly have it. That appeals to your sense of obligation to others.

But I  would think  that they would do well to also emphasis that it might well reduce the intact volume/amount of any virus cloud zones you unknowingly pass through. I would rather wear a mask and inadvertently inhale less pathogen since your personal resistance levels and immunity strength is an unknown,  Just how much time and what quantity levels you are exposed to (I would think and hope) would be a factor in whether or not you  contract the illness and the severity of your infection, since the body does have biological defense mechanisms. There may well be individual threshold levels for each of us as to at what point the virus invaders can overwhelm our personal biological defenses and infect us. 

I would think that when they talk about transmission levels of a disease they are talking about how effective a pathogen is in overcoming our normal defenses that allow healthy people cope with a germ-laden world.

To keep out the maximum inhalation levels, I would prefer to wear a mask with a metallic nose contour band, but they're hard to find. Its all moot at the moment since us older people are still house bound and some of the provinces we live in have it under control at the moment, but when we eventually have to emerge into the wider world, I will be quite concerned. Apparently, the concern level is lowering in places that re-open judging from what we see on the news feeds. Some may  be warranted. Others...... not so.

The older I get, the more risk adverse I have become. I now pass on many activities I eagerly and happily engaged in when younger, because I don't trust my body to perform as well as it did then, despite being in good health, with no medications needed or major disabilities. Got a blind spot in the center of one eye due to an enlarged blood vessel behind the receptor cells that now affects my depth perception to a degree at times, and it was a real wake-up call to remain on high alert while moving about up and down stairs, on Philippine walkways, etc.

So it goes.  I hope they are doing intensive research that will soon be shared re the transmissibility factors of this particular pathogen.  It would alleviate the degree of fear people have re how at risk they are in different social situations.  

Am I off base in my reasoning on this one ?  Do you think masks protect not only others from you, but you yourself from others as well,  to some degree ?

[Tommy T.]

18 minutes ago, manofthecoldland said:

The older I get, the more risk adverse I have become. I now pass on many activities I eagerly and happily engaged in when younger, because I don't trust my body to perform as well as it did then, despite being in good health, with no medications needed or major disabilities.

I agree with that... Up until I turned 40, I felt like I was immortal. I did a lot of really stupid things - in that 20/20 vision called retrospect.

18 minutes ago, manofthecoldland said:

Am I off base in my reasoning on this one ?  Do you think masks protect not only others from you, but you yourself from others as well,  to some degree ?

Maybe you are a bit? From what I have read, a properly fitted N95 mask (of which L and I each have two that we got before this whole thing blew up and got out of hand), will help protect the "receiver" to at least some extent by blocking the larger "droplets." They are either less effective or useless when it comes to the tiny bits, that Geoff described in another thread, coming from just talking.

And, just yesterday, I read about recent research stating that, even though virus particles may be left on and picked up from objects, it has not been totally proven that these are viable and able to infect. But it has not been totally proven otherwise. However, the general thinking is that this is a respiratory driven and transmitted virus primarily and that risks associated with contact are much lower. Keep washing hands and using sanitizer is still the main advice after all that is said...

[Tommy T.]

10 hours ago, AusExpat said:

She was correct, now I've had a little taste, and I don't know how people could live with bread lines, travel restrictions, nosy (informant) neighbours, and gaol threats over what would be considered normal living in other times.

In all fairness... ask her also about the military at the borders with anti-tank barriers, concertina wire, mine fields, clear fire zones with automatically triggered machine guns, and they take your photo from a watchtower at the border using a telephoto lens while another watches you through high-power binoculars and border guards with their pouchy pants, high boots and sub-machine guns patrol, intimidation at checkpoints where your passport disappears for five minutes to hours depending on the guards' mood and your attitude.

Yeah... this "martial law," quarantine and other measures are restrictive, but people charged with enforcement are generally friendly (police, barangay, military) unless provoked or antagonized or rules are flaunted or ignored. Even then, they generally seem to exercise restraint mostly.

Not arguing with you, Aus... just saying it could be a whole lot worse.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tommy T.

[OnMyWay]

https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/

Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

WALNUT CREEK, Calif. (KGO) -- Doctors at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek say they have seen more deaths by suicide during this quarantine period than deaths from the COVID-19 virus.

WATCH: 'Your Mental Health: A Bay Area Conversation,' virtual town hall addressing COVID-19 impact on mental health

The head of the trauma in the department believes mental health is suffering so much, it is time to end the shelter-in-place order.

"Personally I think it's time," said Dr. Mike deBoisblanc. "I think, originally, this (the shelter-in-place order) was put in place to flatten the curve and to make sure hospitals have the resources to take care of COVID patients.We have the current resources to do that and our other community health is suffering."

The numbers are unprecedented, he said.

"We've never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time," he said. "I mean we've seen a year's worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks."

Kacey Hansen has worked as a trauma nurse at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek for almost 33 years. She is worried because not only are they seeing more suicide attempts, she says they are not able to save as many patients as usual.

RELATED: Get help with mental health issues

"What I have seen recently, I have never seen before," Hansen said. "I have never seen so much intentional injury."

The trauma team is speaking out because they want the community to be aware, for people to reach out and support each other and for those who are suffering to know they can get help.

John Muir Health provided a statement to ABC7 late Thursday, saying the organization as a whole is supportive of the shelter-in-place order in the Bay Area.

"John Muir Health has been, and continues to be, supportive of the Shelter-in-Place order put in place by Contra Costa County Health Services to prevent the spread of COVID-19. We realize there are a number of opinions on this topic, including within our medical staff, and John Muir Health encourages our physicians and staff to participate constructively in these discussions. We all share a concern for the health of our community whether that is COVID-19, mental health, intentional violence or other issues. We continue to actively work with our Behavioral Health Center, County Health and community organizations to increase awareness of mental health issues and provide resources to anyone in need. If you are in a crisis and need help immediately, please call 211 or 800-833-2900 or text 'HOPE' to 20121 now. We are all in this together, and ask the community to please reach out to anyone who you think might be in need during this challenging time. Thank you."

The Contra Costa County Crisis Center has counselors available to answer their hotline 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The call is free and confidential.

The executive director says a call to the 1-800-273-TALK can make a huge difference.

"Generally speaking the vast majority of people say they feel better after they call and get the resources they need," said Executive Director Tom Tamura. "With help comes hope. I think that there are people and organizations out there that you can contact that can get you the information you need and resources you need to get you through this tough time."
 

He said calls to their hotline are up, but not dramatically.

He thinks that could be because people aren't seeing their usual network of support. That is where the encouragement to make a phone call can come from.

EXCLUSIVE: Robin Williams' son, Zak, opens up about mental health struggles, advocacy work amid COVID-19 pandemic

"I think people have found themselves disconnected from the normal supportive networks that they have, churches and schools and book clubs, you name it," Tamura said. "And that, coupled with the closure of some counseling services, people were maybe in a little bit of shock.They were trying to weather the storm a bit but as that isolation has grown people have come to realize this isn't a sprint it is marathon."

He says it's important for all of us to be reaching out to people and making connections.

Hansen says in-person meetings are even OK if it will help mental health.

"Six feet away, wear a mask, wash your hands going in, don't touch, you can see people socially distancing safely," she said.

Hansen says a focus on mental health is very important right
"They intend to die," Hansen said. "Sometimes, people will make what we call a 'gesture'. It's a cry for help.We're just seeing something a little different than that right now. It's upsetting."

Hansen and deBoisblanc say they are seeing mostly young adults die by suicide.They are worried about the stress that isolation and job loss can bring as this quarantine continues.

If you or someone you know needs help, call 1-800-273-TALK. Or if you can't remember that number, 211 can get you to the resource you need.

RELATED: Coronavirus Doctor's Note: Shining a light on mental illness

The shelter-in-place order is currently set to expire at 11:59 p.m. on May 31.

Contra Costa Health Services released a statement in response to the trauma team at John Muir Medical Center.

"We strongly encourage everyone in distress to seek help from mental health professionals and local resources such as 211 (the Crisis Center)," the statement read. "We understand that this is a very difficult time for many people and it can feel very isolating to practice social distancing. We want to stress that the shelter-in-place order is saving lives at the same time. It's not uncommon for medical professionals can have differing opinions on courses of treatment for many health issues. The Shelter-in-Place order is no different. We will continue to look to the science of our identified indicators as we determine how best to move forward."

[AusExpat]

4 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/

Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

WALNUT CREEK, Calif. (KGO) -- Doctors at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek say they have seen more deaths by suicide during this quarantine period than deaths from the COVID-19 virus.

WATCH: 'Your Mental Health: A Bay Area Conversation,' virtual town hall addressing COVID-19 impact on mental health

The head of the trauma in the department believes mental health is suffering so much, it is time to end the shelter-in-place order.

"Personally I think it's time," said Dr. Mike deBoisblanc. "I think, originally, this (the shelter-in-place order) was put in place to flatten the curve and to make sure hospitals have the resources to take care of COVID patients.We have the current resources to do that and our other community health is suffering."

The numbers are unprecedented, he said.

"We've never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time," he said. "I mean we've seen a year's worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks."

The same happened in Thailand with last figures I looked at being projected to be suicides being double the covid deaths. These of course were mainly the poor who everyone seems to forget about.

Unsettling.

[Tommy T.]

So we, as individuals, have learned a few things as mentioned in posts above... It appears that CDC and other doctors and scientists are learning about this virus too. While not totally conclusive, this article at least offers something positive to consider?:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/theres-only-one-way-to-contract-covid-19-when-grocery-shopping-cdc-says/ar-BB14nILK?li=BBnba9O

There's Only One Way to Contract COVID-19 When Grocery Shopping, CDC Says

Mura Dominko

Grocery shopping has become one of the most anxiety-inducing activities in our daily lives. From crowds that are sometimes impossible to avoid to concerns surrounding what we should and shouldn't be touching when we're outside of our home, the potential for contracting the coronavirus seems overwhelming. However, we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief, because the CDC is effectively eliminating some of these fears with an adjustment to their safety guidelines.

As the CDC is learning more about the nature of COVID-19 and the way it spreads among the population, their guidelines on potential ways you could contract the disease have been updated.

In early March, when CDC first put out a set of rules and best practices in protecting oneself against contracting the coronavirus, secondary contamination via objects and surfaces was a hotly debated topic and perhaps the biggest source of fear for people. Staying away from others is one thing, but how are you supposed to protect yourself from the invisible virus that may virtually live on all kinds of objects you are coming into contact with?

At the grocery store, this was especially pertinent to food packaging, checkout counters, and payment methods like cash and credit cards. They all became things many of us were reluctant to touch. And although gloves were never officially elevated to the same level of importance as face masks for the general public, many started wearing them to the grocery store to assuage their anxiety.

Fears grew when a study in The New England Journal of Medicine found that coronavirus could survive on certain surfaces for days. However, the study noted there is no conclusive evidence that people can get infected by the virus this way.

Now, a slight but potentially significant shift has come to light on CDC's website. Where once their coronavirus guidelines warned that "it may be possible" to contract the virus through contaminated surfaces and objects, the website now lists "touching surfaces or objects" as an unlikely way of contracting the virus.

This is the most likely way you'll contract the virus

The CDC and WHO are in agreement that the primary way you could contract coronavirus is via person-to-person contact. Here are ways in which you are currently most likely to contract or pass around the virus:

Being in close contact with another person (closer than six feet).

Via respiratory droplets which are expelled when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks.

If these droplets land in another person's mouth or nose, or if they're inhaled into the lungs.

The CDC notes that it may be possible for COVID-19 to spread in other ways, but these are not thought to be the main ways the virus spreads. This conclusion comes primarily from epidemiological data—tracking ways in which the majority of the people that were infected became infected.

What does this mean?

It means you should still practice safety measures and good hygiene, especially when you're out in highly crowded places like grocery stores. The most important precaution is wearing a face mask and keeping a safe social distance from others at all times. Keep washing your hands frequently and be mindful of touching your face. However, you can let go of some of the anxiety around food packaging and whether you should be wiping down your groceries and cleaning kitchen surfaces more than usual—most likely, it isn't necessary.

[hk blues]

3 hours ago, Tommy T. said:

However, you can let go of some of the anxiety around food packaging and whether you should be wiping down your groceries and cleaning kitchen surfaces more than usual—most likely, it isn't necessary.

"Most likely it isn't necessary" -  hardly reassuring!